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Why a high sec nerf is good for industrialists.
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Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#341 - 2012-10-25 06:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
baltec1 wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Ghazu wrote:

At least people in null welp fleets -that's what I mean about how highsec needs to start losing its own share of ships.

If higheccers had tech-supported SRP, they probably would.


It's not a matter of SRP but a matter of high seccers being in high sec because they don't want to risk thier shiny ship.

lol. So you don't think SRP has anything to do with it? So why does SRP exist?

I know for fact that SRP made me more reckless and more wlling to engage because the loss was nil.

In highsec I always consider very carefully the chances of losing a lot of coin easily because in the first instance, I have no idea who my enemy might actually be.

In 0.0 , I always knew.

Nothing is stopping high sec alliances from doing SRP.

True. And you'll also find the larger alliances do have SRP and engage accordingly. Albeit, they're a lot more selective unless they have access to some pretty serious funding. (mercs etc.)

But I get the sneaky suspicion it wasn't the larger alliances being talked about. I reckon it might have been about those carebear style players - they are as averse to PvP as you might be to missioning or mining.

In 0.0 losing a ship is a given. Having it replaced via SRP is a given. Why would a highseccer ever setup an "SRP" when he has no intention of losing anything - let alone through stupidity.

They simply have no concept of losing anything.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2012-10-25 06:24:43 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Okay, try to make T2 stuff in hi-sec and then come back & talk about evening the playing field.

I've done that tons of times, I've had no issues whatsoever. vOv

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Oh, did I mention capitol ships? Anyone have any luck getting high-sec NPC stations to do carrier blueprints, lately?

Hisec does all production up to and including freighters and jumpfreighters, lowsec is being used for carriers and dreads, and sov null is being used for supercarriers. vOv

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
And while we're waiting on that to finish, let's try copying a blueprint at a public queue, shall we? Or maybe doing some ME research?

This is just as hard to do in nullsec or lowsec, i.e. for the most part you still need to put up POSes to do the research or copying, because there's so much demand and so little supply. vOv

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
There are your high-sec industry nerfs. They're already in place, there's plenty of them and they've around for a long, long time. They've been annoying high-sec industrialist for so long that some of them have already - and I know this hard to believe - gone out and become low/null sec industrialists instead. Crazy, right? I mean, I always thought all that T2 stuff that I see all over the market was just magically seeded in by CCP at every server downtime. But nope, turns out that all of is it actually made by people who aren't making their careers in high-sec.

Are you actually trying to say that T2 is impossible to build in hisec? Because that'd be interesting, seeing as how I made tons of T2 guns just 3 jumps out from Jita when I were part of gsf's supply chain. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ghazu
#343 - 2012-10-25 06:26:01 UTC
srp what for pve losses? gee i wonder why my 0% tax gimmick 3 alt corp has no srp

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2012-10-25 06:37:53 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
SHOOT BLUE IMPORTER - PROFIT. Problem solved.

"guys cause myself to get kicked out of blue space for awoxing, it'll be good for profits. honest."

Touval Lysander wrote:
I know that many nullseccers are also in highsec same as many highseccers are in nullsec.

"okay I'll just talk about things which makes no sense to win an argument"

Touval Lysander wrote:
There is NO COST TO TIME.

Touval Lysander wrote:
The TIME it takes me has no cost

Touval Lysander wrote:
In fact, the whole concept of adding cost to production (which is actually quite stupid in theory) is because you are trying to create a cost where none originally existed

"guys guys my time is free there is no opportunity cost guys"

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#345 - 2012-10-25 06:41:17 UTC
Shoot everyone in hisec forever, and participate in endless sec status grind.

OR

Shoot the handful of pilots importing stuff from hisec.

Which is easier? It is not awoxing if the alliance leadership tells you that importing from hisec is the work of a traitor Lol

Day 0 Advice for New Players
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#346 - 2012-10-25 06:51:36 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Shoot everyone in hisec forever, and participate in endless sec status grind.

OR

Shoot the handful of pilots importing stuff from hisec.

Which is easier? It is not awoxing if the alliance leadership tells you that importing from hisec is the work of a traitor Lol

Because alliances are going to go out of their way to make sure their members pay more for their supplies just so we can build stuff at home using slots we dont have. This entire line of argument is the most stupid thing I have seen for quite some time. What is so wrong with having null sec able to compeat with high sec exactly?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#347 - 2012-10-25 07:05:48 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

"guys guys my time is free there is no opportunity cost guys"

So keep thinking that everyone does it just like YOU do and ***** and moan incessantly.

If you
1) ..can't match or beat the competition who has/will have EXACTLY the same facilities that you have
2) ..won't shoot him
3) ..think nerfing highsec will fix this problem

Then go for it.

or you can

1) ..***** and moan incessantly while you make nothing and blame THE OTHER GUY.

w/e

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Ghazu
#348 - 2012-10-25 07:11:05 UTC
How do I even respond to Touval "time is free" Lysander.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2012-10-25 07:19:36 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Which is easier? It is not awoxing if the alliance leadership tells you that importing from hisec is the work of a traitor Lol

It would be awesome to see what happened to any alliance which were ******** enough to think this, with the current mechanics which nullsec is suffering under.

Personally, I think the words "failure cascade" wouldn't even begin to describe the speed with which it'd implode.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2012-10-25 10:27:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it is quite funny how members of "the most successfull and industrialist friendly" alliance and have "all things high-sec industrialists can only dream of" build stuff in high-sec and xfer into 0.0 to sell Lol


We have accessto many things via the alliance but we still build most of the gear in empire because its cheaper.

Seroiusly how is this hard for people to understand?

this is completely clear.
On the other hand what is difficult to understand is: where is your alliance is great speaking of industry? Logistics? Lol I'm sorry but this is not the main problem for high-sec industrialists. So where is that mythical things high-sec industrialist can only dream of?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#351 - 2012-10-25 10:37:48 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

it is quite funny how members of "the most successfull and industrialist friendly" alliance and have "all things high-sec industrialists can only dream of" build stuff in high-sec and xfer into 0.0 to sell Lol


We have accessto many things via the alliance but we still build most of the gear in empire because its cheaper.

Seroiusly how is this hard for people to understand?

this is completely clear.
On the other hand what is difficult to understand is: where is your alliance is great speaking of industry? Logistics? Lol I'm sorry but this is not the main problem for high-sec industrialists. So where is that mythical things high-sec industrialist can only dream of?

Go take out a loan with a six month old account.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2012-10-25 11:03:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Go take out a loan with a six month old account.

i have never needed any loans for my business. However gave many (never returned) loans to other guys. Where is the problem again?

On the other hand: if you don't have money to start business and have no people who trust you how will you ensure loan return? Or your alliance simply drops money to those "six months old wannabees"? Then i have to agree: ISK is where goons are strong. But this is only one and small part of industry career.

Other "industrial" bonuses?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#353 - 2012-10-25 14:25:45 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

"guys guys my time is free there is no opportunity cost guys"

So keep thinking that everyone does it just like YOU do and ***** and moan incessantly.

If you
1) ..can't match or beat the competition who has/will have EXACTLY the same facilities that you have
2) ..won't shoot him
3) ..think nerfing highsec will fix this problem

Then go for it.

or you can

1) ..***** and moan incessantly while you make nothing and blame THE OTHER GUY.

w/e

You don't.

He's the same guy that started a thread complaining about sov mechanics because his PoS's keep getting blown up.

He's the guy telling null players they have no right to ask for fixes to improve the ecomony in null, while at the same time asking CCP to nerf null so that null corps make less money.


All of his hypocritical, nonsense excuses come down to one thing, he thinks null sec should be nerfed.
When you debunk one of his rediculous excuses he makes up another.


I'm sorry, I apologize; that's not correct.

His whole problem is GOONS. He doesn't want all of null nerfed, he asked in particular for CCP to nerf goons.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2012-10-25 14:29:38 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
His whole problem is GOONS. He doesn't want all of null nerfed, he asked in particular for CCP to nerf goons.

well. he has problem with goons. goons have problem with miners. miners have problem with gankers. gankers have problem with pvpers. etc... etc...

nothing really shocking

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2012-10-25 14:37:36 UTC
You mean we've got issues with miners who don't tank their ships and believe CCP should do the tanking for them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#356 - 2012-10-25 14:39:34 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
His whole problem is GOONS. He doesn't want all of null nerfed, he asked in particular for CCP to nerf goons.

well. he has problem with goons. goons have problem with miners. miners have problem with gankers. gankers have problem with pvpers. etc... etc...

nothing really shocking


Except this has nothing to do with goons.

EVERYONE in null is effected by the prices in high sec, we actually feel it less in goons space than many other people in null sec. TEST and HBC I imagine also have decent market hub set up as well, and I would assume that if they have a good enough of a trade hub than they also have some amount of industry in their systems as well.

Places that have no, or very little industry in null would be places that aren't able to break free of high sec industry, that is they MUST import to sustain themselves.

I don't think people get this.
Its not that people import, it's that a lot of people have to import ALMOST EVERYTHING to live in null.


Unlss CCP has some way of injecting 100k people into null, the problem can't be corrected without an increase in prices in high.

Over production in high sec is driving prices to just over mineral cost.
As a high sec industrialist, you should want FEWER industrialists in high, and HIGHER prices for your goods.

Some people don't seem to care that a change would be good for high sec, only that it would benefit null; so **** us keep everything as it is and squeeze an entire playstyle out of null.

Pretty hypocritical coming from a group that constantly uses the "null players shouldn't dictate how we play" as an excuse to change everything.
Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#357 - 2012-10-25 15:58:21 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
How do I even respond to Touval "time is free" Lysander.


You've started well, speaking of him only in the third person, like a bug or a newt.

next, mock him for some ridiculous thing he said...you covered that one as well.

A+
Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#358 - 2012-10-25 16:04:52 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Some people don't seem to care that a change would be good for high sec, only that it would benefit null; so **** us keep everything as it is and squeeze an entire playstyle out of null.

Pretty hypocritical coming from a group that constantly uses the "null players shouldn't dictate how we play" as an excuse to change everything.


If you define a group by "irrational hypocrite carebear forum complainers", then don't be surprised when members of this group make hypocritical and irrational complaints on the forums about null affecting hisec. This is effectively what you've done. They haven't defined themselves in any way, by joining a corp together, forming a coalition, etc. It's reasonable to think of them as a group privately, but to refer to them as a group on a public forum is somewhat misleading. They've done nothing to deserve the name.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#359 - 2012-10-25 16:05:59 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Go take out a loan with a six month old account.

i have never needed any loans for my business. However gave many (never returned) loans to other guys. Where is the problem again?

On the other hand: if you don't have money to start business and have no people who trust you how will you ensure loan return? Or your alliance simply drops money to those "six months old wannabees"? Then i have to agree: ISK is where goons are strong. But this is only one and small part of industry career.

Other "industrial" bonuses?

The do indeed get the money and they repay the loan. We have total trust in eachother. As for our other benefits, market manipulation on a grand scale.
Geligdio Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#360 - 2012-10-25 16:11:08 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[quote=March rabbit][quote=Natsett Amuinn]

Over production in high sec is driving prices to just over mineral cost.
As a high sec industrialist, you should want FEWER industrialists in high, and HIGHER prices for your goods.

Some people don't seem to care that a change would be good for high sec, only that it would benefit null; so **** us keep everything as it is and squeeze an entire playstyle out of null.

Pretty hypocritical coming from a group that constantly uses the "null players shouldn't dictate how we play" as an excuse to change everything.



This is exactly it. A protected industrial zone spoils industry for everyone.

High Sec should be a place to start and find your feet in EVE, it shouldn't become your alliance with whom you loyally stay forever. There should be a point where you see people in low and null making much more money and you want to leave and get into the game proper.

I can understand why a lot of players don't want to make this shift, right now it would be painful and difficult and make them less money, it would be mad to leave.

After the coming Nerf however it will make sense and it will develop the game the new heights of excellence and industry will be better for all.

Thanks