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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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space anchor

First post
Author
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
#21 - 2012-10-25 00:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
James 315 wrote:
Souisa wrote:
How can you defend against it?

If you're relying on the Grandmaster of Bump to teach you how to avoid bumps, you may as well surrender and join the New Order now. Smile


I was just curious if there was a way to defend against it

o/

Wack-a-Mole Poljus
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-10-25 01:01:34 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

An alt of mine was just bumped outside HEK in an orca. If i hadnt been paying attention i would have been outside dock range soon enough and most likely popped by wartargets. This orca even had Reinforced Bulkheads.

Anyway. It seems that alot of miners are having an issue with bumping, but i think its a viable tactic. If i hadnt payed attention then with my orca i probably would have lost it. There were no WT's around at the time, but they would have shown up, webbed and scrammed me the second they see im outside dock range. Anyway, kudos to them for that, these kinds of tactics only make EVE a more interesting place. Anyway. There should be a way to defend against this IMO, some sort of anchor.



Is call a Lasso, open you orca window and lasso the station.

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-10-25 01:12:27 UTC
The current aggro mechanics, concord and sec status view a bumper exactly like someone who is doing nothing. It has been said a few times before that the very system that protects you in high sec is also the very system that betrays you.

I won't comment on what I think about this bumping fad, but I think if someone wants to do something to inhibit another player, that player should have options to do something equivilant in return. An eye for an eye if you will.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#24 - 2012-10-25 01:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
A space anchor ?

Actually that's quite interesting.

I could see it being related to the way that a Cyno ship can't be moved; a module that adds ship mass perhaps ?
Everything needs a counter ...

Lets hear some fleshed out ideas!

Edit: Apologies to Akirei Scytale who already mentioned the mass thing ...

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#25 - 2012-10-25 01:38:04 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
A space anchor ?

Actually that's quite interesting.

I could see it being related to the way that a Cyno ship can't be moved; a module that adds ship mass perhaps ?
Everything needs a counter ...

Lets hear some fleshed out ideas!

Edit: Apologies to Akirei Scytale who already mentioned the mass thing ...

If its a true anchor, like POSes or GSCs have, then it would work the same way. You would activate it, and after a delay your ship would be fixed at one spot. There would have to be distance limits like there are for GSCs: A ship cannot anchor within some distance of another object. (This prevents people from blocking a station undock with anchored ships). Maybe 5 km?

In addition, an anchored ship should remain anchored even if you eject from it. This would stop issues with ships getting bumped out of POS fields and all the petitions that result. It would also give supercap pilots confidence that if they left their ship in their POS, it will still be there when they return. (And now Im nerfing myself. I once stole a Proteus that got accidentally bumped out of a POS field by the enemy when they warped in a Nyx.)

A bump reduction module would be sort of like a personal web. It just greatly slows you down, and increases the "drag" factor of your ship. The issue here is not to make it an insta-warp module. Maybe it not only slows you, but prevents you from warping.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Macks Artilius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-10-25 02:18:13 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
You mean a module that would increase your mass? Like an armor plate of some sort? Or perhaps one that would distort space and increase your mass through a micro-sized warp bubble?


This. A MWD not only increases your speed / acceleration, but also your mass. In theory you would be harder to bump when stationary using a MWD. Its not something you could just leave on though.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#27 - 2012-10-25 02:27:25 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

If its a true anchor, like POSes or GSCs have, then it would work the same way. You would activate it, and after a delay your ship would be fixed at one spot. There would have to be distance limits like there are for GSCs: A ship cannot anchor within some distance of another object. (This prevents people from blocking a station undock with anchored ships). Maybe 5 km?

In addition, an anchored ship should remain anchored even if you eject from it. This would stop issues with ships getting bumped out of POS fields and all the petitions that result. It would also give supercap pilots confidence that if they left their ship in their POS, it will still be there when they return. (And now Im nerfing myself. I once stole a Proteus that got accidentally bumped out of a POS field by the enemy when they warped in a Nyx.)

A bump reduction module would be sort of like a personal web. It just greatly slows you down, and increases the "drag" factor of your ship. The issue here is not to make it an insta-warp module. Maybe it not only slows you, but prevents you from warping.


That is quite an interesting suggestion indeed.

What is the flipside I wonder ? bumping is a valid tactic, and so therefore 'self anchoring' would then become a valid defence too.
But then, where is the emergent game-play ?

Meaning, if two play styles can negate each-other; why would anyone do it ?
How do you counter that ?

Off the top of my head, Self anchoring would have a cascading benefit according to the skill level of the person who anchors, and perhaps the level of navigation skill + mass involved would combat that by the person bumping ?

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#28 - 2012-10-25 02:29:26 UTC
When a dreadnaught or carrier enter siege/triage, their mass becomes far heavier and they become something akin to a brick in space. I suppose it works kind of similar to a cyno in that aspect, as you can't move whatsoever unless you already had momentum. Perhaps that sort of trick might work, although I'm not entirely sure how it could be worked into a mining module.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#29 - 2012-10-25 02:40:56 UTC
solution 1) Make a bookmark XXX,XXXkm directly in front of undock. You'll be able to instantly warp to it when undocking.

solution 2) stop playing stupid station docking games

solution 3) stop flying a dumptruck

Hope that helps...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#30 - 2012-10-25 02:58:26 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

If its a true anchor, like POSes or GSCs have, then it would work the same way. You would activate it, and after a delay your ship would be fixed at one spot. There would have to be distance limits like there are for GSCs: A ship cannot anchor within some distance of another object. (This prevents people from blocking a station undock with anchored ships). Maybe 5 km?

In addition, an anchored ship should remain anchored even if you eject from it. This would stop issues with ships getting bumped out of POS fields and all the petitions that result. It would also give supercap pilots confidence that if they left their ship in their POS, it will still be there when they return. (And now Im nerfing myself. I once stole a Proteus that got accidentally bumped out of a POS field by the enemy when they warped in a Nyx.)

A bump reduction module would be sort of like a personal web. It just greatly slows you down, and increases the "drag" factor of your ship. The issue here is not to make it an insta-warp module. Maybe it not only slows you, but prevents you from warping.


That is quite an interesting suggestion indeed.

What is the flipside I wonder ? bumping is a valid tactic, and so therefore 'self anchoring' would then become a valid defence too.
But then, where is the emergent game-play ?

Meaning, if two play styles can negate each-other; why would anyone do it ?
How do you counter that ?

Off the top of my head, Self anchoring would have a cascading benefit according to the skill level of the person who anchors, and perhaps the level of navigation skill + mass involved would combat that by the person bumping ?


The downside is it uses a slot, and hence nerfs your tank or mining yield.

Balancing to make it not all or nothing may be hard. Based on reports Ive heard, no one has a counter now so its a one sided battle ATM. A pure anchor, like a POS has, would make it totally one sided the other way. Maybe your anchor can resist a certain impulse (speed x mass) before breaking, and how fast you go increases as the bumper overwhelms your anchor by larger amounts. Your anchoring capability would be something like your mass times skill times some constant. The issue there is at that point you might as well not be anchored at all, as the bumper can just keep moving you, and you, having an anchor module on, cannot get back. Turn it off and we are right back to where we are now.

If the anchor, or the anti-bump module, can keep you in range long enough to finish an ice mining cycle then it is of some use. Once the cycle is done you warp to a different spot in the ice field, re-anchor, and you can do another cycle before the bumper moves you out. As long as you are willing to fly your ship you can keep on mining.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#31 - 2012-10-25 03:03:11 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
As long as you are willing to fly your ship you can keep on mining.

I suspect that might be a deal-breaker for some people/machines.

I mean, if you're going to be at your keyboard, you may as well mine in lowsec and shoot anyone who tries to bump you. Blink
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-10-25 03:19:56 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
ISD Suvetar wrote:
A space anchor ?

Actually that's quite interesting.

I could see it being related to the way that a Cyno ship can't be moved; a module that adds ship mass perhaps ?
Everything needs a counter ...

Lets hear some fleshed out ideas!

Edit: Apologies to Akirei Scytale who already mentioned the mass thing ...

Here's the best damn idea anyone's come up with so far.

You can drop a space anchor that has the same equivalent mass multiplier that a siege module does, but while it's activated you cannot move, warp, activate any modules, or lock anything. The module has a 10 minute duration and cannot be deactivated prior to that. Any ships that log off while anchored will not disappear until one minute after the anchor module deactivates, or 15 minutes after last received aggression prior to logging off, whichever comes last.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Hrothgar Nilsson
#33 - 2012-10-25 03:35:28 UTC
Try ice mining in a Hulk orbiting the rock with a MWD on. Stagger your ice harvester cycles.

Hulk has 2x the mass of a Mackinaw, or 10x the mass with the MWD going. I'm not an expert in bumping, but it ought to make a big difference in how far you get bumped off.

Being in orbit around the rock should reduce the distance your ship gets bumped, and your ship will automatically try to regain that position.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-10-25 03:46:00 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Try ice mining in a Hulk orbiting the rock with a MWD on. Stagger your ice harvester cycles.

Hulk has 2x the mass of a Mackinaw, or 10x the mass with the MWD going. I'm not an expert in bumping, but it ought to make a big difference in how far you get bumped off.

Being in orbit around the rock should reduce the distance your ship gets bumped, and your ship will automatically try to regain that position.

Before someone complains about this, here's a hint:

Afterburners add the same amount of mass an equivalent sized MWD does, and they're a lot easier to fit.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#35 - 2012-10-25 03:46:06 UTC
Oh yes, a siege module for barges that makes you unbumpable!
The only drawback is, you have to give up a high-slot for it, which no miner would ever do. Lol

Who put the goat in there?

Hrothgar Nilsson
#36 - 2012-10-25 03:53:19 UTC
Ah, looks like I mixed up sig radius with mass increase. Yeah, afterburners do add the same mass as MWDs.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#37 - 2012-10-25 04:03:05 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
A space anchor ?

Actually that's quite interesting.

I could see it being related to the way that a Cyno ship can't be moved; a module that adds ship mass perhaps ?
Everything needs a counter ...

Lets hear some fleshed out ideas!

Edit: Apologies to Akirei Scytale who already mentioned the mass thing ...


What good will a module that adds mass to a ship in a game whose mechanics allow less then frigate noobships to bump Battle ships without neigh a dent of damage?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#38 - 2012-10-25 04:11:32 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

An alt of mine was just bumped outside HEK in an orca. If i hadnt been paying attention i would have been outside dock range soon enough and most likely popped by wartargets. This orca even had Reinforced Bulkheads.

Anyway. It seems that alot of miners are having an issue with bumping, but i think its a viable tactic. If i hadnt payed attention then with my orca i probably would have lost it. There were no WT's around at the time, but they would have shown up, webbed and scrammed me the second they see im outside dock range. Anyway, kudos to them for that, these kinds of tactics only make EVE a more interesting place. Anyway. There should be a way to defend against this IMO, some sort of anchor.

You undocked in an Orca while at war?

Trust me son, your problems are much more severe than worrying about bumping.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#39 - 2012-10-25 04:13:18 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

If its a true anchor, like POSes or GSCs have, then it would work the same way. You would activate it, and after a delay your ship would be fixed at one spot. There would have to be distance limits like there are for GSCs: A ship cannot anchor within some distance of another object. (This prevents people from blocking a station undock with anchored ships). Maybe 5 km?

In addition, an anchored ship should remain anchored even if you eject from it. This would stop issues with ships getting bumped out of POS fields and all the petitions that result. It would also give supercap pilots confidence that if they left their ship in their POS, it will still be there when they return. (And now Im nerfing myself. I once stole a Proteus that got accidentally bumped out of a POS field by the enemy when they warped in a Nyx.)

A bump reduction module would be sort of like a personal web. It just greatly slows you down, and increases the "drag" factor of your ship. The issue here is not to make it an insta-warp module. Maybe it not only slows you, but prevents you from warping.


That is quite an interesting suggestion indeed.

What is the flipside I wonder ? bumping is a valid tactic, and so therefore 'self anchoring' would then become a valid defence too.
But then, where is the emergent game-play ?

Meaning, if two play styles can negate each-other; why would anyone do it ?
How do you counter that ?

Off the top of my head, Self anchoring would have a cascading benefit according to the skill level of the person who anchors, and perhaps the level of navigation skill + mass involved would combat that by the person bumping ?



make is a high slot mod and it reduces mining efficiancy... sure you can put one on and anchor yourself but you will have to pay a price for it... and for those who wish not to fit the mod then can have potential to make a higher isk/hour...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-10-25 04:14:20 UTC
omg, attention seekers...

it is not likely that bump whining comes from genuine people. Boring.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again