Ships & Modules

This!

Besides, when are people going to learn that Dread Guristas torpedo launchers have the same stats at half the cost?!

+1. But don't expect EFT warriors to get it. We won't even discuss the WASTE issue alone.

What I see wrong with his fits (aside from the first with gyros and bcus)

#1) 4x mods that have stacking penalties - surely it would be better to free up 1 of those mids for a prop mod, and one of those lows for something like a Nano or a TE (as TEs will enhance missiles soon), or a drone damage mod

#2) It uses lots of A type modules - if you're going to spend that much to upgrade your mission boat, upgrade the hull first - get a mach

#3) Needless bling - Black Eagle drone link augmentors? really? are you aware that with lvl 4 skills to ewar drone interfacing, your drone control range is 57km base, 2 standard link augmentors put that up to 97km. Do you really need to bling it to get another 12km (105km) - can you even target that far? No, not in that ship without a Sebo/Sigamp. if you're using torps, you'll need to split DPS to make use of that range.

Maybe black eagles have come down in price, but last I checked, they were >200 mil
You really want to spend 400 mill on drone links to get 12km more drone range (that you can't even use) on a hull that only costs 300 mil?

My fleet phoon is packing arty and cruise, and is shield tanked, it puts out pretty good DPS, but its a novelty, as I've got pirate faction BS's (The Bhaal is the only one I don't yet have, atm the mega and the phoon are my only navy faction ships, I want a N domi though, I think it'll ne nicer than the Rattler)

F*ck off. Knob.

No, faction is not always better. Javelin-less torpedo range should be a textbook example of the reasons.

You don't need a prop mod on your CNR, Rattler or SNI because you're (presumably) using cruises on them. Cruises are a very long range weapon system, to the point where lock range and travel time tend to limit their damage projection more than their flight range does. This is absolutely not the case with torps. Unless you have found some PvE content where you consistently get dropped within 20km of the targets (and this is not an exaggeration), you're losing time getting to them. With a prop mod, you're losing less time, but it's still an efficiency killer.

A 5000 DPS torp fit would be impressive indeed. But you don't have one. You have a ~850 DPS torp fit whose alpha is less relevant than its damage projection issues.

on what targets? which size? their speed?

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Cruise_Missile_Specialization

2% ROF bonus per skill lvl, at lvl 4 spec, that 17.6 second cycle time becomes 16.2 - oushining the RF launchers.. but not the CN launchers. CN launchers are OP in my opinion, no other faction weapon outdamages the T2 variant with lvl 3 spec (let alone lvl 4 spec, or even lvl 5 as in this case)
In this case, its all about range, torps are simply too short range, after the missile rebalance, that may not be so bad (I'm not sure)



Volley damage isn't DPS, if you do 5000 damage per volley, but volley every 10 seconds, that is only 500 damage per second.
If you want high damage... look at what Arty fits do - I'm not going to EFT it, I just know in incursions that the 1400 machs routinely hit over 15k volleys, I think the average is over 10k, and with a mach, you've also got good DPS, not just good volleys.


I like to bling my PvE boats too, especially my incursion boats bling -> get in good fleets (like ISN) -> make more Isk -> able to buy more bling,
Faction BS's don't take that long to train into, although your lack of gunnery skills would be a problem for a mach

- but only bling if the "bling" makes sense.
Can you even make use of the extra drone range of those black eagle links? I think not.
Its like using a Shadow Serp EANM in place of a T2 EANM on a fit that isn't tight on CPU (they both have the same resists the faction has lower fitting reqs), some other faction EANMs do have higher resists.... the benefit of the faction item goes to waste, and all it does is make you a bigger gank target.

2x black eagle drone link augmentors may be useful in a sniper boat that can actually target at that range.
If you were using just 1, I wouldn't be criticizing it - lets assume only lvl 3 ewar drone interfacing, 54km targetting range -> 80km vs 74 with T1
But 2x T1 get you to 94km... its plenty, you cant target that far, you can't shoot that far, your drones can't shoot that far, all you've done is fill your loot piñata, and make yourself more likely to get ganked.

In a cruise Rattler with Sentries and sebo/sig amp and warden sentries (ideally with t2 or faction omni tracking links) acting as a sniper, using its 2x utility highs for black eagle links makes sense - allowing sentry drones to hit out to 112km rather than just 100 with T1s

Holy crap, this thread turned into quite the debate... Gotta love EVE players. Everybody knows just enough to argue any given perspective.

Anyway, I noticed one of you stated that you shield-tank your fleet phoon. I used to shield-tank, but read that armor-tanking was better for the ships I was using. So I converted. I'm skilled at both at this point... Should I be shield-tanking? It seems like I'd have to give up some important mid-slot stuff to shield-tank...though it would open up some low slots.

Can't handle the sexiness of the majestic space whale, eh?
Your loss.



Hah. Haha...Ahahahaaha *wheeze*
Nope, that's people in general.
(See? You already got someone to argue with you about this! )

we all know what happens to fits that are needlessly blinged up.....
someone comes along to blow the loot piñata up.

fitting a ship properly with t2 stuff is the way to go. a Black Eagle drone link augmentors is kinda dumb.