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CCP allow miners to defend against bumpers ?
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Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#121 - 2012-10-24 19:23:36 UTC
I wish I could drive my car like James flyes is Eve ships. This would make the drive to work more interesting. Smile
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2012-10-24 19:25:45 UTC
James 315 is the best thing to happen to hisec in a long time

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Ix Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-10-24 19:26:11 UTC
I propose we make a new Mining only security zone, where it is illegal to take any ship but a barge. Once open, all miners will be welcomed with open arms. Then shut the gate.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#124 - 2012-10-24 19:28:08 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:

Not gameplay when paying customers are interrupted.


What do you not understand about the term gameplay? if you are playing a game, you are partaking in gameplay

Quote:

And that's wonderful for you. Some of us have lives and can't stare at a screen 24/7. We mine, then use it to build the ships you so eagerly use against us...wonder what would happen if we just stopped Smile


If you're mining 23/7 you're obviously a bot or aspiring to be one GTFO.
If you stopped mining? guess what? others will take your place and provide the same service, you are not unique, there are many more players that can fly an barge/exhumer than players that actually do.

Quote:
And what happens when you get bumped or popped by GSF hm? Not so good when the shoes on the other foot? Or what happens when someone else simply undercuts you to continue to ensure cheap goods to the rest of New Eden?Smile


Getting ganked or being bumped is a cost of doing business, you deal with it and move on. Alternatively you can cry about it, which we actually prefer because your tears? they fuel the gank & bump campaigns. Somebody undercuts me on the market? meh so what, prices fluctuate daily and I & many other traders have enough liquid isk to push prices back up within a day or so by buying out the competition, or ignoring the undercutter until all their stuff is sold.

Quote:
And that is exactly how you'll be pushed out. CCP will protect it's earnings and income as opposed to allowing belligerent undesirable behavior Smile


Good luck with that, I'll leave you with this

CCP Wrangler wrote:
"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for. "

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#125 - 2012-10-24 19:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Zkaor wrote:
Will someone at CCP please allow miners defend (destroy) the bumpers ship without Concord intervention. As it is now all miners hands are tied and MUST submit to their extorsion tactics with no means of defense.


P.S. If this should be posted elsewhere please let me know...thanks



1st and last possible answer to this thread: don't mine= don't get bump=don't post crap

Translation for dumb: stop mining.

Translation for even dumber: stop mining and logging

Translation for dudes being bigger dumb as dumb are to normal people: stop mining and logging, unsub and don't get back before a couple months.

Problem solved (because subs)

brb
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#126 - 2012-10-24 19:31:22 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
You just want CCP to ensure that high sec continues to maintain it's communist grip on industry in New Eden. First it was ganking, now it's bumping. You guys wont be happy untill all of New Eden has to succumb to your playstyle.


Once you stop threatening ours and demanding CCP nerfs highsec, then we'll stop Smile

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
How is that extortion, that's paramount to calling any real world business extortionists when they publish their shareholders reports.


You're very bad at analogies. How is;

1) Point gun at persons head
2) Hey I'll not hurt you if you pay me money
3) Money paid

a "business" and not extortion? Typical logic of the undesirables.


Nope, shareholders voluntarily give money to The New Order, mining licences holders names do not appear on minerbumping.com, James goes out of his way to ensure their anonymity and protect them from retribution from the naysayers

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2012-10-24 19:34:08 UTC
Jonah GravensteinWhat do you not understand about the term gameplay? if you are playing a game, you are partaking in gameplay.[/quote wrote:

Not when I don't get what I paid for.

Quote:
If you're mining 23/7 you're obviously a bot or aspiring to be one GTFO. If you stopped mining? guess what? others will take your place and provide the same service, you are not unique, there are many more players that can fly an barge/exhumer than players that actually do..

Of course I alone would do nothing. Learn to read. I said all miners.

[quote]Getting ganked or being bumped is a cost of doing business, you deal with it and move on. Alternatively you can cry about it, which we actually prefer because your tears? they fuel the gank & bump campaigns. Somebody undercuts me on the market? meh so what, prices fluctuate daily and I & many other traders have enough liquid isk to push prices back up within a day or so by buying out the competition, or ignoring the undercutter until all their stuff is sold..

OK, that's your take on it. Not everyone elses.Smile

As for your little outdated quote, times change. Businesses change. You want the money? Adapt. Niche markets can't survive long without diversity. And the diversity wants safety. Deal with it Smile
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#128 - 2012-10-24 19:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Ranger 1 wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Entitled, there's your problem right there, you are entitled to nothing in this game.


yea, well... and I say that with the utmost neutrality... that no longer applyies to ANY game with monthly fees... these times are long gone.

Not according to the EULA and Terms of Service you agreed to when you signed up to pay and play. The only thing you are entitled to is access to the server, with the understanding that even that can and will be interrupted from time to time.


Sure... that would be true if CCP wouldn't care about trivial things like subsrciption numbers...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-10-24 19:35:36 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nope, shareholders voluntarily give money to The New Order, mining licences holders names do not appear on minerbumping.com, James goes out of his way to ensure their anonymity and protect them from retribution from the naysayers


You lie more than Mitt Romney

1) He doesn't go out of his way to protect anyone, look at his latest post on his blog.

2) They "voluntarily" pay because they are coerced with endless bumps. There is no voluntary donation you simple undesirableSmile
Nanatoa
#130 - 2012-10-24 19:39:28 UTC
Someone is confusing shareholders with miners.

Shareholders support James 315 and the New Order, but don't mine.
Miners of course also support the New Order, but they buy a 10M indulgence. They're not shareholders.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-10-24 19:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tali Ambraelle
Nanatoa wrote:
Someone is confusing shareholders with miners.

Shareholders support James 315 and the New Order, but don't mine.
Miners of course also support the New Order, but they buy a 10M indulgence. They're not shareholders.


Caught in your own lie, hm?

As I said, undesirable belligerents ruining customer experience. She was coerced, paid your RANSOM, and also purchased stock, making her a shareholder. Why she did that is anyone's guess, maybe to try to get on your good side so she can mine in peace. Either way, criminal scum is all you are Smile

EDIT: BTW, how does your "righteous" crusade stand against "afk" miners...when they aren't afk, and are indeed talking to you? Smile
Nanatoa
#132 - 2012-10-24 19:47:13 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
She was coerced, paid your RANSOM, and also purchased stock, making her a shareholder.

No one forced her to buy the shares though.
And as I said, in general the shareholders aren't even miners. You don't seem to grasp the distinction between the New Order asking miners to buy an indulgence for mining and investors buying shares out of their own free will.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Zhade Lezte
#133 - 2012-10-24 19:49:14 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:

Not in high sec, they're entitled, they're not bothering anyone. It's ok though, high sec will be made safer soon, and the undesirables will be pushed out :)


And this is about when I realized our lovely Tali is an idiot or a troll (leaning troll).

Good thread, would read again, gotta consider becoming a New Order shareholder now.
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-10-24 19:49:30 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
No one forced her to buy the shares though.

Fear of your "crusade" most likely did. She probably wanted to, as I said, "get on your good side..." What good side you have, I'll never know.

Quote:
And as I said, in general the shareholders aren't even miners.

Except they are, as state previously in this thread, a miner is a shareholder for he hopes the higher prices will help him.

Quote:
You don't seem to grasp the distinction between the New Order asking miners to buy an indulgence for mining and investors buying shares out of their own free will.


I believe I do. You use fear and coercion like scumbag criminal mobsters. Belligerent undesirables have the oddest logic Smile
Twoso
Doomheim
#135 - 2012-10-24 19:57:27 UTC
To all the "miners suck" type trolls: People have been bitching about neutral repping for years. The primary argument was and is that its consequence-free game play that ruins high sec pvp. So CCP is fixing it. I don't hear anyone bitching about the fix to repping. Pretty much everyone seems to agree that it wasn't "fair" that someone could have such an outsized effect with absolutely no way to get at them. Here you have a clearly aggressive act that is being used not just for destroying the income-generation ability of miners but also bumping ships to prevent warping and other griefing objectives.

Why is it that this is okay to totally **** things up with no ability for the person being bumped to fight back? Please explain, in excruciating detail, how repping was bad, but bumping isn't.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#136 - 2012-10-24 19:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
Someone is confusing shareholders with miners.

Shareholders support James 315 and the New Order, but don't mine.
Miners of course also support the New Order, but they buy a 10M indulgence. They're not shareholders.


Caught in your own lie, hm?

As I said, undesirable belligerents ruining customer experience. She was coerced, paid your RANSOM, and also purchased stock, making her a shareholder. Why she did that is anyone's guess, maybe to try to get on your good side so she can mine in peace. Either way, criminal scum is all you are Smile

EDIT: BTW, how does your "righteous" crusade stand against "afk" miners...when they aren't afk, and are indeed talking to you? Smile


Shareholders do not get a free mining permit, as a shareholder if I want to mine in a system controlled by The New Order I have to purchase a mining permit. If one of the shareholders was a mining corp, their miners still have to purchase individual permits, although they may get a bulk discount if they ask nicely.

Heavy-met4l-queen did not have to purchase shares after purchasing a permit, that is her own choice.

as for AFK miners, James clearly states that they are not allowed, AFK means exactly that, if you need to visit the bathroom, grab a bite to eat etc, dock up, if you don't you are in breach of the Code. This distinction does not absolve active miners from the offence of mining without a permit.

Tali Ambraelle wrote:

Of course I alone would do nothing. Learn to read. I said all miners.


In the context of the original post by yourself I think that you'll find that my reply covers all miners. Miners are not unique, I would say that a large majority of people who don't currently mine can fly the ships that miners do. You can be replaced, deal with it.

I'm one of the minority of James's shareholders that are miners, I am a shareholder because

  • it's economically viable for me to be so
  • it hurts my competition thus making my mining time more valuable
  • I'm also a trader and I consider the cost of my shares as a worthwhile investment in economic warfare
  • it amuses me to sponsor a campaign to rid Eve of mining bots and AFK players, by mining
  • you have to speculate to accumulate



For a niche game Eve has done remarkably well so far, a 9 year old game that still attracts new players and holds on to it's older ones is quite the measure of success. The thing is that Eve is not for everybody, hence the term "niche", for some it is not the game for them, for others it is.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#137 - 2012-10-24 19:57:52 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
No one forced her to buy the shares though.

Fear of your "crusade" most likely did. She probably wanted to, as I said, "get on your good side..." What good side you have, I'll never know.

Quote:
And as I said, in general the shareholders aren't even miners.

Except they are, as state previously in this thread, a miner is a shareholder for he hopes the higher prices will help him.

Quote:
You don't seem to grasp the distinction between the New Order asking miners to buy an indulgence for mining and investors buying shares out of their own free will.


I believe I do. You use fear and coercion like scumbag criminal mobsters. Belligerent undesirables have the oddest logic Smile



Nonnono. Shareholders are shareholders.

Miners are customers. :)
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#138 - 2012-10-24 19:58:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
A few points:
1: The bumping mechanic in EVE was modified in the past to be less pronounced, but ships still bob around like corks when in close proximity. For immersion reasons alone it should be modified again to at least LOOK somewhat believable.

2: Goons, or anyone else for that matter, have every right to try and extort money from miners (or anyone else that lets them get away with it).

3: Yes, you will be able to put a bounty on a bumper soon... but that's really not a solution unless the bumpers are flying ships that are worth the security hit to pop and collect the bounty on.

4: Hmmm, looks like there is a need for a smaller, faster mining vessel that will be more difficult to bump for people that insist on mining in systems that have a bump operation in progress. Sort of a ninja mining vessel, perhaps frigate sized. Blink

And can mine ice.

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Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2012-10-24 20:02:40 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
CCP, Buff bumping. I want dedicated bumping ship with 1 high slot for Tear Harvester II, and low slot for Tear Harvester Upgrade II.


Bumping has many uses in EVE, many beyond just harassing miners (which I must admit is quite a good use of the mechanic). I am surprised we haven't seen a battering ram ship. Battleship mass, frigate speed, 1 high slot (no turret/missile slots, utility only).
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#140 - 2012-10-24 20:04:59 UTC
"Allowing miners to defend themselves" has proven to be a gigantic slippery slope in the past. Giving them an inch in any direction is inevitably going to result in highsec having even less player to player interaction in it.