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Nighthawk and heavy missile changes
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#61 - 2012-10-23 03:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Sleipnir's odd 8th high-slot comes from Cyclone with its split-weapons, where it was required to match the DPS with the rivals. CCP failed to notice how they made Sleipnir entirely gun-based and thus kept that extra high as an evidence of their utter noobidity.

Utility high is always good to have, but those implying it to be as good as another med or low are on pair with CCP. What makes Sleip FOTM is not that silly high, but surely something else.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#62 - 2012-10-23 14:17:49 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Sleipnir's odd 8th high-slot comes from Cyclone with its split-weapons, where it was required to match the DPS with the rivals. CCP failed to notice how they made Sleipnir entirely gun-based and thus kept that extra high as an evidence of their utter noobidity.

Utility high is always good to have, but those implying it to be as good as another med or low are on pair with CCP. What makes Sleip FOTM is not that silly high, but surely something else.


The cyclone actually use to have the same number of total lots as the other tier 1 bcs. It was granted an additional mid slot prior to the release of the field commands which were all given +1 slots compared to their parent bc.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-10-23 16:06:15 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.


Nonsense. The HAM tengu will be awesome. Admittedly you'll have to actually fly it a bit rather than just drop can, orbit, but 900 fps is worth a little effort.


when you have to spend half the time 'flying' instead of shooting, your effective dps is cut in half. at that point, you might as well fly an assault frigate.


Or a blaster Proteus. That thing does killer EFT DPS and 1600 m/s with the MWD it can perma-run. Doesn't make it not annoying to fly :(
Justin Valentine
Mickey Mouse Club
#64 - 2012-10-29 12:59:47 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.

False
Ginger Barbarella
#65 - 2012-10-29 15:35:52 UTC
Justin Valentine wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.

False


Well reasoned counter-point to the discussion. Your insights here are spectacular. Keep up the awesome poasting. Roll

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#66 - 2012-10-29 17:28:19 UTC
Justin Valentine wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.

False


Did you read this thread at all?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-10-29 17:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Sleipnir's odd 8th high-slot comes from Cyclone with its split-weapons, where it was required to match the DPS with the rivals. CCP failed to notice how they made Sleipnir entirely gun-based and thus kept that extra high as an evidence of their utter noobidity.

Utility high is always good to have, but those implying it to be as good as another med or low are on pair with CCP. What makes Sleip FOTM is not that silly high, but surely something else.


Double XL-ASB and still dishes a very good 750+dps without heat with decent skills. With top skills +OGB it becomes a pure beast with Battleship dps but all the advantages of battlecruisers+T2 resists.
Hell even with a single XL-ASB you can feel dirty sometimes Lol but it becomes a little bit more balanced with buffer+logi and without OGB (witch is silly to do when you're told "asb no restrictions" and should get it even better)

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-10-29 17:43:07 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Veryez wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Heres the comparison shooting on a battleship, the green line is the new nerfed dps.

T1 Scourge missiles:
http://i.imgur.com/9AVlL.jpg

T2 Scourge Fury missiles:
http://i.imgur.com/Pcc1N.jpg


A picture is always worth a thousand words. I didn't realize t2 fury missile range was cut to about 1/3 - ouch. Well another useless t2 ammo, and just when they were starting to make them useful after 6 years...I beginning to think they should release the TC/TE changes at the same time.....Ugh


Fozzies post got it all, you people havent read it?
"-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029


Ah, so they are making it like T2 ammo for turrets? Interesting. More damage / shorter range for Fury.

Be interesting to see how that pans on test.


Interesting point of view and you're probably right. This still doesn't makes me change my Tengu or give it away, no way lol.
I always thought Tengu silly stuff was about that stupid range and huge dmg no matter the distance, if this gets really corrected and more in line with turrets I'm all for it.
Still waiting to see ships changes thou, I might as well fall from my chair or have a good smile (because short range gets yummy)

brb
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#69 - 2012-10-29 18:31:07 UTC
When able to test it out, give some feed back. I would love to hear how it turns out in application.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-10-29 18:45:43 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
When able to test it out, give some feed back. I would love to hear how it turns out in application.



After a lot of testing on SISI and useless feedback I finally decided to delete from my computer this Eve version to never get back again, and I'm always a man of my word.
It happened before, it happened again in this one and the only thing saving it (TQ) is that I still get a little fun playing it on MY WAY despite obvious nerfs/buffs a-la-wow needed/required/maybe not/absolutely.
Probably because I can find around nerdier than I am, but whatever Blink

brb
Justin Valentine
Mickey Mouse Club
#71 - 2012-10-29 19:56:31 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Justin Valentine wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.

False


Did you read this thread at all?

Tengu wont be unviable there is already many posts in the forum on this subject, it will still do 750/1000+ dps at 30/50k perfectly acceptable mission runner.
The nighthawk was never the best mission ship, its role as an upmarket Drake still stands as it was never intended to be a mission runner its a fleet booster.
So as I said False the Tengu is fine, the Nighthawk is fine.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#72 - 2012-10-30 23:14:14 UTC
Veryez wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
10 percent damage nerf and decreased range will hurt the nighthawk alot, we can only hope that the ship balancing next summer that includes field command ships will put the bird where it should be. Until then, I hope you have cross trained other factions ships. The nighthawk is my favorite ship but it will be docked after the missile changes until next summer.


Technically you'll be able to regain some of the range back by using a TE or TC, so the range of heavy missiles won't be as greatly impacted. Of course you'll be most likely dropping a BCU to fit this which will further hurt your DPS.

The tracking computer changes aren't going to appear in Retribution

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-10-31 10:54:43 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
after the missile nerf, even the tengu will be unviable for lvl4s, the nighthawk will be just a lump of metal.


I run L5's in a tengu and I dread to see what that will be like after this nerf. As it is I get 780dps and manage L5's with only a small bit of support from my basi alt at the hard points of missions. I don't know if I care to search for a new ship to use. I'd like to know what prompted all this fuckery by ccp to begin with.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#74 - 2012-10-31 13:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Soon Shin wrote:
All Field CS should receive more slots, fitting, and HP buff and resistance.



Sleipnir- HAC base resist, and higher base speed.
(8/5/5 - 7 turrets)
Shield boost (7.5% -> 10%)
projectile rof
projectile damage
projectile falloff

Astarte- one more low slot, HAC base resist, more fitting, and replace the (lol) active armor tank to something better.
(7/4/7 - 7 turrets)
active armor tank -> Armor Hp bonus 10% per level
Hybrid rof
Hybrid damage
Hybrid falloff



The proposed changes to these two ships posted above I personally do not think are good ideas.

The increase to resistances and another 12.5% shield boost amount proposed for the sleipnir is simply overpowered. These changes alone increase the Sleipnirs active tank by close to 20%. With sleipnirs currently tanking over 5k dps I honestly see 100% no reason to further increase the potency of this arguably overpowered command ship. It's the standard that the others should be more or less balanced to. The only improvement I would grant to this ship as well as all field commands is a modest increase in hp pushing their raw hp values slightly beyond that of their t1 parent ships, instead of being slightly below like we have today.

Now to the proposed changes for the Astarte you have listed... Again, full t2 hac resistances I do not think are a good idea on these ships especially with the additional low both you and I have suggested. The proposed removal of the rep amount to hp is also another suggestion that I simply cannot get on board with. Changing the rep amount from 7.5% to 10% as well as the additional low would do wonders for alleviating the perceived performance gap between the sleipnir and the astarte, both ships that should retain their active tank bonuses and be designed around small gang brawling rather than be turned into just another fleet boat.