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Case Study: Ice Fields: High Sec vs Low Sec
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Herr Hammer Draken
#21 - 2012-10-22 23:47:28 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
It isn't the Ice itself that is my concern. The trickle down effects are.



That statement sounds like you want CCP to step in and manipulate the market for you on your behalf so you can make more isk.

The bots mining ice are against the EULA and that is something that should be ended. But your view point on this is about down line profit and therefore market manipulation on your behalf from CCP. I think you are walking a fine line.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#22 - 2012-10-22 23:58:37 UTC
Ice is very much a problem right now. It is basically tailor made for bots and afk mining but the eve economy requires so much of it that if CCP actually banned every ice miner bot in the game the entire eve economy would collapse. Any change to the difficulty of ice mining would require a large increase in yield to compensate. So as much as I hate the whole afk/bot mining thing, I do recognize that under the current mechanics it is needed. And I do enjoy ganking them from time to time. A good time killer when you have some spare isk to burn.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#23 - 2012-10-22 23:59:12 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
It isn't the Ice itself that is my concern. The trickle down effects are.



That statement sounds like you want CCP to step in and manipulate the market for you on your behalf so you can make more isk.

The bots mining ice are against the EULA and that is something that should be ended. But your view point on this is about down line profit and therefore market manipulation on your behalf from CCP. I think you are walking a fine line.


Well, sort of. My overhead would increase somewhere between 400 and 900% if Static Ice Fields were removed from High Sec. But, that could be made to my advantage with a lot of work on my end. In fact, the first month or so after the change might be a net loss of tens of billions.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#24 - 2012-10-23 00:22:49 UTC
Yes. Move ice only to low-sec.
Small corps will form up to mine ice and have battleships there to defend them from .. oh hey, look, that neut just uncloaked in his covops ship and lit a cyno!

Talk about ice interdiction. Even if the game didn't collapse under the loss of the rage-quits from ice being removed from high-sec, the forums would be crushed under the weight of the anti-afk-cloaking threads.
You wouldn't even need an alliance the size of Goonswarm to completely halt ice production in some regions for weeks on end. Keep them docked with a cloaky, and if they do undock and try to mine, hot drop them and send them home the hard way.

Moving ice to low is pretty on the surface, but that's it.


Profit favors the prepared
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-23 02:36:15 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Many chose not to go to university because it was too much effort. In return for the lack of effort they have poor conditions and low wages.


Not always the case.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#26 - 2012-10-23 03:01:21 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Many chose not to go to university because it was too much effort. In return for the lack of effort they have poor conditions and low wages.


Not always the case.

That's why I used the term MANY and not ALL. And in some cases those that didn't go to university made good. But they still applied effort.

Ice mining is zero effort. Reward for same. Keep it low. Let 'em suffer.

Last thing we need in Eve is more regulation every time someone squeaks.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#27 - 2012-10-23 03:59:11 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:

Ice is not profitable.


So why do you bother with the issue?

Do something that is fun instead.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#28 - 2012-10-23 04:22:01 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:

Ice is not profitable.


So why do you bother with the issue?

Do something that is fun instead.


Well, every other post in this thread has been off topic... why should yours be any different?

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#29 - 2012-10-23 05:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Val'Dore wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:

Ice is not profitable.


So why do you bother with the issue?

Do something that is fun instead.


Well, every other post in this thread has been off topic... why should yours be any different?

"Ice is not profitable." << That's what you said.
"Who cares" << is pretty well what everyone else has said.

Thus, any solution you offered is sorta void because, for most of us, there is no problem.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Rantaren
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-10-23 06:02:49 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:


Ice is not profitable. Not even a smidgen, you lose massive loads of ISK just warping to an Ice Belt in a Barge.



I'm trying to figure out if this is a troll or not. I've done wormholes, incursions, manufacturing, and trade and the profit I've made from mining ice dwarfs all of these put together.
pussnheels
Viziam
#31 - 2012-10-23 06:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
Problem is not that there is ice in highsec , main problem is that icemining is a long and boring proces that tends to be done AFK
compared with normal mining ,
moving icebelts to low sec will only raise the price of ice products , probably so high that every item that needs a Blueprint to manufacture will go up in price aswell

People will not go to low sec to mine it , that is a fact and nullsec ice mining will not be able to keep up with the demand it can hardly keep up with its own demand and the different isotopes used on different towers and capital ships will only complicate matters
in my opinion leave them where they are and if miners are to lazy to tank their macks or AFK mine they only got themselves to blame and gankers will stay happy

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-10-23 06:39:08 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
It is basically tailor made for bots and afk mining but the eve economy requires so much of it that if CCP actually banned every ice miner bot in the game the entire eve economy would collapse.

A collapsed economy in a pretend spaceship world sounds like a lot of fun.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-10-23 06:41:42 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Your first mistake is to assume that anyone aside from you cares about the ice fields or fail "Ice-interdictions"

Most people are completely unaffected by this little mini-game, and probably don't even know it's an issue. Shocked


This ^^

Warped a cloaky into a team of 3 macks on a field in a 0.5 an hour or so ago.

Decloaked for a laugh. No-one moved.


Did you ship scan them first? Maybe they were supertanked and just waiting for somebody to try a gank.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#34 - 2012-10-23 06:45:53 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
It is basically tailor made for bots and afk mining but the eve economy requires so much of it that if CCP actually banned every ice miner bot in the game the entire eve economy would collapse.

A collapsed economy in a pretend spaceship world sounds like a lot of fun.

According to your senior economist leader, it's not fun. For him.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#35 - 2012-10-23 06:46:53 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Your first mistake is to assume that anyone aside from you cares about the ice fields or fail "Ice-interdictions"

Most people are completely unaffected by this little mini-game, and probably don't even know it's an issue. Shocked


This ^^

Warped a cloaky into a team of 3 macks on a field in a 0.5 an hour or so ago.

Decloaked for a laugh. No-one moved.


Did you ship scan them first? Maybe they were supertanked and just waiting for somebody to try a gank.

Possible. Didn't try. Have BM. Will, errr, look into it.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
D4mane
Wazan Tme Inc.
Corelum Syndicate
#36 - 2012-10-23 08:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: D4mane
I request you make a different thread for each question. I only have 6000 characters (why not 9001 CCP) to answer and this is clearly not enough.

But if you insist:

1. No
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
5. Yes
6. Not really.
7. Yes
8. Maybe
9. No
10. No
11. Yes
12. Yes
13. Yes
14. Yes
15. No
16. Definitely
17. No
18.Yes
19. No
20. No
21. No
22. Yes
23. I don't get this. (I'm being verbose)

Disclaimer: I have genuinely spent the last hour and a half reading and coming up with my answers, this is not a troll.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-10-23 10:31:11 UTC
So how do we make Ice profitable? profitable compared to what, running 4s in a drake or running sites in a carrier?

How do we cash in on this massive POS Fuel market? somebody somewhere is making all those pos fuel blocks that are on the market and I'm sure they're making some isk off them. I guess they're better at pos fuel market pvp than you are.

How will removing Ice from 0.5+ affect the Ice Market? make it worse than it already is

What will such a change do to the POS Fuels Market? he who controls the spice controls the universe

Would any change to the Ice Supply be workable? depends on who you want benefitting from the change

Would industrious corporations and players shift to low sec to mine Ice? hahaha you really expect people to change their play style?

What would such a change do to the Mineral and Ore markets when the 99% refuse to leave high sec to mine Ice? not much probably, ice isn't as widely used as ore

What would Low Sec Ice Mining do to the Barge and Exhumer Market? again not much, same as above

Would the blow back from AFKbears be sufficient reason to not make this shift? nope, they would probably switch to mining something else if they don't ragequit.

How would this affect players that gank Ice Miners? Would it be a positive change? who cares about them?

How will this affect the Low Sec Piracy population? hahahaha....

How will this affect the Low Sec Anti-Piracy population? the who?

If Ice is moved to Low Sec only, what about exploration based Ice Belts that deplete or have limited duration? it would just be another annoyance involved with mining ice

Who does High Sec Ice benefit most? people who want to mine ice

Who does High Sec Ice benefit least? those who know better than to mine ice

Who would Low Sec Ice benefit most? not the people who think it would give them more easy targets

Who would Low Sec Ice benefit least? again, those who know better than to mine ice

Would you stand to benefit from Low Sec Ice? Why or Why not? nope, don't have a pos, don't need a pos.

How would Low Sec Ice affect or be affected by Faction Warfare? those guys are too busy farming to bother with ice mining, well until this latest patch they were lol. I guess now they're too busy trying to figure out how to exploit the new system.

What is your overall opinion on a shift of all Ice Fields from High Sec to Low Sec? Please be verbose.

Limiting a resource to one area isn't going to solve anything. I think it would suck just as bad as limiting pvp to only one of the regions.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#38 - 2012-10-23 11:08:03 UTC
All I can say is I can't wait for the new ORE frigate to arrive so people can start more threadnaughts as they start bitching about gas harvesting and how profitable/unprofitable/noobish it is.

Delicious tears await!!

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#39 - 2012-10-23 11:10:42 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:

Ice is not profitable.


So why do you bother with the issue?

Do something that is fun instead.


Well, every other post in this thread has been off topic... why should yours be any different?

"Ice is not profitable." << That's what you said.
"Who cares" << is pretty well what everyone else has said.

Thus, any solution you offered is sorta void because, for most of us, there is no problem.


I didn't offer a solution. What?

I asked people what they thought would happen if a change like that was made. Perhaps, I should have left out the 'subjective' parts of the OP.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-10-23 11:13:11 UTC
How do you protect 200 mill exhumer from gank?

Even if local pirates offer patronage for a fee and let miners into low sec, what can prevent random attacks on barges?

How large a force do you need to protect yourself from a multi carrier hot drop???

Will there be any market for ICE left or everybody will mine forthemselves.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
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