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What is going to be done about this ICE Interdiction?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2012-10-22 10:45:32 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Harraria wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Defending AFK carebearing as a playstyle is shameful. People who play that way should be blown up.


Half of this game is AFK mode. You train skills offline for god sakes.


Agreed.

Other AFK methods of making ISK:

1. Station Trading.
2. R&D on BPO's/BPC's.
3. Manufacturing
4. Moon mining
5. PI

To suggest that one form of AFK ISK generation is any better or worse than another is absolutely ludicrous.

But since the null sec alliances depend on at least 2 of the 5 above, there will never be propaganda campaigns against the items listed.

BTW, currently I have 3 cap BPO's sitting in a station, a LOW SEC station. They are being copied.
When they are done, I will have 3 cap ship BPC's worth around 160-180M, depending on market prices.

Taking into the amount of copy time at a station, I am earning a profit of about 3-4 M /day, and I don't even have to log on to earn that, let alone go AFK.

So I guess we should wipe out BPC copying as well. Or rather, force someone to stare at their BPO's for 23.5 hours a day, for 45 days straight.

Null sec whine bears are a cancer of this game.


You dont do any of those activities in a ship.
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#42 - 2012-10-22 10:46:56 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask my friends to increase barge HP.

Cool

Who put the goat in there?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#43 - 2012-10-22 10:50:59 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :



  1. Buy up the remaining ice products
  2. Buy any ice that is sold
  3. Slowly sell the stock you have in your hangar, which is suddenly more valuable to you as a market commodity than as POS fuel


Think outside the box.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#44 - 2012-10-22 10:53:59 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.


Blink


And.


  • Mine/Ice somewhere else.
  • Keep an eye on local and don't mine/ice AFK.
  • Find something funnier and more profitable to do for some time


Or just OAAO.

Observe, Analyse, Adapt and Overcome

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Nanatoa
#45 - 2012-10-22 10:55:05 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.


Blink



None of this will save you from getting bumped!

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#46 - 2012-10-22 10:55:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Harraria wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Defending AFK carebearing as a playstyle is shameful. People who play that way should be blown up.


Half of this game is AFK mode. You train skills offline for god sakes.


Agreed.

Other AFK methods of making ISK:

1. Station Trading.
2. R&D on BPO's/BPC's.
3. Manufacturing
4. Moon mining
5. PI

To suggest that one form of AFK ISK generation is any better or worse than another is absolutely ludicrous.

But since the null sec alliances depend on at least 2 of the 5 above, there will never be propaganda campaigns against the items listed.

BTW, currently I have 3 cap BPO's sitting in a station, a LOW SEC station. They are being copied.
When they are done, I will have 3 cap ship BPC's worth around 160-180M, depending on market prices.

Taking into the amount of copy time at a station, I am earning a profit of about 3-4 M /day, and I don't even have to log on to earn that, let alone go AFK.

So I guess we should wipe out BPC copying as well. Or rather, force someone to stare at their BPO's for 23.5 hours a day, for 45 days straight.

Null sec whine bears are a cancer of this game.


You dont do any of those activities in a ship.


And we care why?
Yet another utterly unrelated, moronic post by a goon ganker.

AFK income is AFK income.
There is no differentiation.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2012-10-22 11:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


And we care why?
Yet another utterly unrelated, moronic post by a goon ganker.

AFK income is AFK income.
There is no differentiation.


The difference is to do mining you have to undock your ship and do things in space. Everything that undocks is fair game. Going AFK in a ship with no tank can result in bad things happening.

Try thinking before sperging again.
T1nyMan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-10-22 11:14:40 UTC
Tell me about it... I undocked yesterday and bam! Power bill in the mail!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#49 - 2012-10-22 11:25:45 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.


Blink



So good of a newly minted member of CCP to display his knowledge of game mechanics so well.

Pray tell, how does a "merc corp" protect against suicide gankers?
Until Crimewatch kicks in, a ganker will be able to suicide a ship, and nothing can be done to stop it.

Let's look at some math, shall we?
Try to keep up.

A Mackinaw, fully tricked out, has a tank of 49K, if the Mack pilot has an implant in slot 7.
Add on a fully skilled Vulture pilot in the SC or WC position, and you push that tank to 66K.
And against kin/therm, we can even say that tank is 71K.

Now then, a Catalyst has a tricked out DPS of 676, with implants in slot 6 and 9.
That ship fully fitted is a little less than 5M.
Given that pods don't get Concorded, there is zero risk atm for suicide pilot's clones.
And please don't talk about someone suiciding their own ship to pop a pod. That will just further make you look dumb.

So along comes a squad of say, 10 Cat's. They will pump out combined DPS of 8 x 676 = 6760
Let's round that down to 6500

That means the Mackinaw, with a tank of 71K, evaporates in 11 seconds
Given how easily Concord can be fooled to move to another location in a system by someone suiciding in a rookie ship in system, that means the Mack is toast in 05, 0.6, and 0.7 space, for certain.
In 0.8 and above space, it is iffy.

That is a cost of 10 catalysts at 5 M each = 50M, and the loss of the Mack, plus mods, plus rigs, is over 200M.
And when the suicide gankers' alts scoop the debris, the losses are so much lower.

So let's say the miners somehow scrape the coin together to hire a merc corp.
Let's say the mercs send out boats to alpha the 10 Cat's when they go red.
The merc's are going to need a minimum of 5 alpha ships sitting there with the miners, manned constantly, to ensure the safety of the miners.

Precisely how much is that going to cost?
And it gets better. What happens if the suicide gankers bring 20 Catalysts? Total cost is still only 100M for them, for a 200M kill.

In summary, I can understand the null sec zealots and professional griefers making the same old "fit a tank, hire merc' lines, but a member of CCP???
Unless, of course, you are a null sec zealot
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2012-10-22 11:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
10 catalyst will not burn through 71k of t2 resits in 10 seconds.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Nice effort, but your logic is total fail.



Explain.
ANGRY23
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#51 - 2012-10-22 11:32:36 UTC
Wat is an ice interdiction. If u miners want to mine ice with no goon reprisal come to Rancer. We have daily mining ops cashing in on the gaylantte ice prices being high and never see a goon. Contact me ingame if u too want to make billions when goons mess with gaylantte ice.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#52 - 2012-10-22 11:50:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
10 catalyst will not burn through 71k of t2 resits in 10 seconds.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Nice effort, but your logic is total fail.



Explain.


Given how you can't do simple math, there is no point in trying to explain anything to you.
Further, no amount of discussion about how one form of AFK income is different than another, other than one being in a ship and the others not, is beyond idiocy.

But to humour the inmates of the insane asylum, try to grasp these 3 facts:

1. PI IS DONE IN A SHIP. You have to be at the orbital platform, IN SPACE, to do it. So FAIL #1.
2. To actually move stuff around in moon mining, like starting and stopping the process, emptying the silos', require someone IN SPACE, even in in a pod. So FAIL #2.
3. BPO research and manufacturing is also done at POS's. Guess what, they are IN SPACE. If you have enough gankers, you can actually take down a POS before Concord arrives. If all the goons got together in Tornado's, many many high sec POS's could be suicide ganked. Suiciding a POS when compared to suiciding a ship is only a matter of scale. So FAIL #3.

Now, I have more important things to do than waste my time arguing with a freighter ganker, so I won't be responding to whatever twisted point you try to make next.

Man, I can't wait until Crimewatch kicks in and slows you guys down some. It won't stop you, but it might hurt you a little.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-10-22 11:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
1. PI IS DONE IN A SHIP. You have to be at the orbital platform, IN SPACE, to do it. So FAIL #1.

Your exposure is literally 5 seconds if you're not a scrub.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. To actually move stuff around in moon mining, like starting and stopping the process, emptying the silos', require someone IN SPACE, even in in a pod. So FAIL #2.

I usually used an iteron 5, myself. Saved on CPU/PG costs.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
3. BPO research and manufacturing is also done at POS's. Guess what, they are IN SPACE. If you have enough gankers, you can actually take down a POS before Concord arrives. If all the goons got together in Tornado's, many many high sec POS's could be suicide ganked. Suiciding a POS when compared to suiciding a ship is only a matter of scale. So FAIL #3.

Research, okay. Manufacturing? At a POS?

Man, you hisec people really dislike isk, don't you, what with the ferocity with which you guys keep throwing it away?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-10-22 11:56:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
EVE has intrusion countermeasures now? Is it black or grey? What's the attack and spoof rating of your deck?


Heh. That's exactly what i was thinking about as well when i read the title.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
CCP Falcon
#55 - 2012-10-22 11:58:54 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.


Blink



None of this will save you from getting bumped!


EHRMAGHERD BERMPENGHS

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#56 - 2012-10-22 11:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.


Blink



So good of a newly minted member of CCP to display his knowledge of game mechanics so well.

Pray tell, how does a "merc corp" protect against suicide gankers?
Until Crimewatch kicks in, a ganker will be able to suicide a ship, and nothing can be done to stop it.

Let's look at some math, shall we?
Try to keep up.

A Mackinaw, fully tricked out, has a tank of 49K, if the Mack pilot has an implant in slot 7.
Add on a fully skilled Vulture pilot in the SC or WC position, and you push that tank to 66K.
And against kin/therm, we can even say that tank is 71K.

Now then, a Catalyst has a tricked out DPS of 676, with implants in slot 6 and 9.
That ship fully fitted is a little less than 5M.
Given that pods don't get Concorded, there is zero risk atm for suicide pilot's clones.
And please don't talk about someone suiciding their own ship to pop a pod. That will just further make you look dumb.

So along comes a squad of say, 10 Cat's. They will pump out combined DPS of 8 x 676 = 6760
Let's round that down to 6500

That means the Mackinaw, with a tank of 71K, evaporates in 11 seconds
Given how easily Concord can be fooled to move to another location in a system by someone suiciding in a rookie ship in system, that means the Mack is toast in 05, 0.6, and 0.7 space, for certain.
In 0.8 and above space, it is iffy.

That is a cost of 10 catalysts at 5 M each = 50M, and the loss of the Mack, plus mods, plus rigs, is over 200M.
And when the suicide gankers' alts scoop the debris, the losses are so much lower.

So let's say the miners somehow scrape the coin together to hire a merc corp.
Let's say the mercs send out boats to alpha the 10 Cat's when they go red.
The merc's are going to need a minimum of 5 alpha ships sitting there with the miners, manned constantly, to ensure the safety of the miners.

Precisely how much is that going to cost?
And it gets better. What happens if the suicide gankers bring 20 Catalysts? Total cost is still only 100M for them, for a 200M kill.

In summary, I can understand the null sec zealots and professional griefers making the same old "fit a tank, hire merc' lines, but a member of CCP???
Unless, of course, you are a null sec zealot



You obviously missed the part where I was joking.

The Ice Interdiction is a perfectly valid part of sandbox gameplay, just the same as forming a fleet and going out to gank people, suicide ganking someone in highsec, or Hulkageddon.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2012-10-22 12:00:18 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Given how you can't do simple math, there is no point in trying to explain anything to you.


Its my corp who came up with ganking barges with catalysts. We put the maths to the test in game and your little theory has been proven to not be true.

Quote:

1. PI IS DONE IN A SHIP. You have to be at the orbital platform, IN SPACE, to do it. So FAIL #1.

So you must be in your ship in space for the ENTIRE process fromstart of the order to finish? Oh wairt whats that? You dont? Well colour me unsuprised.

Quote:
2. To actually move stuff around in moon mining, like starting and stopping the process, emptying the silos', require someone IN SPACE, even in in a pod. So FAIL #2.

So you need to be in space for the entire time its mining. Oh wait you only have to visit it once a week? Well damn.


Quote:
3. BPO research and manufacturing is also done at POS's. Guess what, they are IN SPACE. If you have enough gankers, you can actually take down a POS before Concord arrives. If all the goons got together in Tornado's, many many high sec POS's could be suicide ganked. Suiciding a POS when compared to suiciding a ship is only a matter of scale. So FAIL #3.

This is my favorate. You try to insult me on my maths skills and then go on about ganking a tower in empire.


Quote:

Man, I can't wait until Crimewatch kicks in and slows you guys down some. It won't stop you, but it might hurt you a little.

Boy are you in for a bad shock.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#58 - 2012-10-22 12:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
CCP Falcon wrote:


You obviously missed the part where I was joking.




OK -10 Respect points for backing down. The advice you gave was right, and the guy who replied to you is madder then a bag of cats and I've made a note of his name to heavily invest on bounties on him as soon as Retribution comes out.

EDIT: OK you added in a bit telling them to stop complaining about EVE being EVE. Only -5 respect points for not responding with just HTFU.

Lord Zim wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
GRRRRR GOOOONS!!!!!!!

Your warface don't scare me.

Work on it.


I lack the vitriol and foaming at the mouth rage that High Sec ignorants have when they post about you, so it'll never be top quality Sad

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#59 - 2012-10-22 12:26:21 UTC
The ice interdiction's annoying me.

But that's just because I can't be bothered anchoring a new tower. Blink

Like anyone at all sensible, I've already taken measures to even out price bumps.

Appropriate response to the OP: HTFU

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#60 - 2012-10-22 12:31:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

There are several options you can really use here :


  • Fit a tank to your barge.
  • Hire a mercenary corporation to escort and protect your mining group.
  • Ask your friends or corpmates to fleet up and provide an escort for your mining group.

Blink



So good of a newly minted member of CCP to display his knowledge of game mechanics so well.



Hmm, and you have of course much more experience of the game mechanics than that newly minted CCP wannabe?

Seems likely, indeed.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.