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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Solution to AFK Cloaking and Nerf Local Nonsense

First post
Author
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1 - 2012-10-20 21:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Make cloaks disconnect the player activating the cloak from local chat.

That means the Local window would disappear.

This includes all forms of cloak, including gate cloak.

That's right. You don't appear in local and Local doesn't appear to you until you decloak.

Actually, I'd have a 2-3 second delay, allowing for seamless cloak activation after de-cloaking post-jump.

AFK cloakies interdict nothing and waste their own time and electricity (as it should be).

Active in-system cloakies have tactical advantages.

This also keeps Local functionality with the exception of those actively looking to hide.

Any thoughts on this?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-10-20 21:45:05 UTC
Yeah, a ***** and a half to code.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#3 - 2012-10-20 21:47:54 UTC
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Yeah, a ***** and a half to code.

Do you know that for a fact?

Code for changing chats is tied to incursions.

It's tied to a number of things.

I think it should be able to be tied to a module activation, especially if they have a 1m cooldown.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#4 - 2012-10-20 21:48:15 UTC
Yet another thread sub-parsed from another thread so CFC/FA Darth can push his little MAKE THE GAME THE WAY I WANT IT agenda. Roll

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

David Campbell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-10-20 21:49:38 UTC
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#6 - 2012-10-20 21:50:33 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.

Please provide a +1, and thank you for your fine post.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Zhade Lezte
#7 - 2012-10-20 22:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhade Lezte
Touval Lysander wrote:
Yet another thread sub-parsed from another thread so CFC/FA Darth can push his little MAKE THE GAME THE WAY I WANT IT agenda. Roll


Goodness, dear sir, I agree! The gall of those Eve players of that nullsec coalition making carefully thought-out posts to explain changes they think would be good for the game!!!

On-topic: Don't really have an opinion on this one (there are a lot of interesting solutions to this), probably should be in features & ideas discussion though.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#8 - 2012-10-20 22:10:00 UTC
Zhade Lezte wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Yet another thread sub-parsed from another thread so CFC/FA Darth can push his little MAKE THE GAME THE WAY I WANT IT agenda. Roll


Goodness, dear sir, I agree! The gall of those Eve players of that nullsec coalition making carefully thought-out posts to explain changes they think would be good for the game!!!

On-topic: Don't really have an opinion on this one (there are a lot of interesting solutions to this), probably should be in features & ideas discussion though.

There are a lot of posts about the subject posing solutions to both problems in GD all the time.

This just solves both in a way that also adds value to Black Ops. That'd be a clear win for CCP.

If it gets moved to F&I it'd be a shame, considering all the obvious troll posts about the same topics littering GD right now. Sad

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-10-20 22:14:49 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#10 - 2012-10-20 22:19:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"

That's a fair point.

But risk still remains for the cloaky pilot, this just allows them (quite correctly) to be able to camouflage numbers as a byproduct.

The risk becomes evident if the cloaky ship decloaks. If not, there was no risk.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#11 - 2012-10-20 22:20:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"


It's not like there was a risk attached to cloaky scouting anyway.


I'm all for a change like this, but it should be tied with a change to cynos.
Most people could live fine with really invisible cloakers, the instant-cynos are the problem.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#12 - 2012-10-20 22:22:57 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
Andski wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"


It's not like there was a risk attached to cloaky scouting anyway.


I'm all for a change like this, but it should be tied with a change to cynos.
Most people could live fine with really invisible cloakers, the instant-cynos are the problem.

I'd probably also have to agree with you there.

Cynos would need a moderate spool if this change were implemented.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-10-20 22:27:27 UTC
Thread moved from General Discussion to Features & Ideas Discussion - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#14 - 2012-10-20 22:29:49 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
Thread moved from General Discussion to Features & Ideas Discussion - ISD Type40.

And a jolly good day to you too, sir! Oops

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-10-20 22:57:42 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Sheynan wrote:
Andski wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"


It's not like there was a risk attached to cloaky scouting anyway.


I'm all for a change like this, but it should be tied with a change to cynos.
Most people could live fine with really invisible cloakers, the instant-cynos are the problem.

I'd probably also have to agree with you there.

Cynos would need a moderate spool if this change were implemented.



This excactly.

Spools should be variable, based on distance and mass; much like how fuel is calculated for the ship. Dropping from long range with large ships should take a while and allow the defender the react to the cyno ship lighting the cyno. This would also have a secondary effect of slowing down logistics using JF's and limiting the ability of capitals crossing the cluster for reinforcements.

I also think that the spool up should apply to jump bridges as well as Titan/Black ops bridging (basically anything that needs fuel). I would like to see something in the area of Battleships taking about 10-15 seconds spool time for a 5 LY jump. This would allow smaller subcaps the ability to continue to enjoy near instant jumps while larger ships (Supers and Titans specifically) would take a very long time to complete a jump.

If this was to happen I would imagine that a skill that reduces jump spool time by 5% per level would be in order.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#16 - 2012-10-20 23:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Zhade Lezte wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Yet another thread sub-parsed from another thread so CFC/FA Darth can push his little MAKE THE GAME THE WAY I WANT IT agenda. Roll


Goodness, dear sir, I agree! The gall of those Eve players of that nullsec coalition making carefully thought-out posts to explain changes they think would be good for the game!!!

On-topic: Don't really have an opinion on this one (there are a lot of interesting solutions to this), probably should be in features & ideas discussion though.

Goodness dear sir, I agree. But there is ALREADY a thread on this "well thought out topic"...

Darth posted in it, it's ignored so to make sure he's HEARD (yet again) he paraphrases in a new thread claiming "he has a great idea".

Not sure if it's plagarism, lack of original thought or a cry for help. Roll

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."

Goupil
Holiday in Space
#17 - 2012-10-20 23:24:58 UTC
Maybe something a bit more sophisticated could be better, all tied only to the cloaking modules :

- add the property to totally remove you from local to covert ops cloaking modules, when equiped on a ship (not just when activated).
- delay local appearance by, let's say 10 seconds per level in the cloaking skill when any other standard cloaking module is equiped (again), on any ship. Perhaps more than 10 sec, up to 30/level, idk... (if the option to be able to warp and jump system from system unoticed seems desirable)
- allow black ops battleships to be able to fit covert ops cloaking modules.

It's just an idea (maybe a bad one, I'm don't know). To me, this would offer the following :
- maintain local in 0.0
- remove AFK cloaking (I must say I have no real opinion on the subject)
- for full covert ops teams (with black ops), well, they would become really stealthy (more fun, and more logical imho)
- for guerilla teams, roams, etc, they would either go non covert, like today, or would now have the option to fit cloaks, gimping their ships but giving them a better chance to have the surprise effect.
- cloaky tactics could be used in low and high sec, too (wars, FW, piracy, etc.)

(and sorry for my bad english, it's not my native langage)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2012-10-21 00:10:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I don't give a rat ass about AFK cloakies but having true black ops where you can gather information and surprise an enemy fleet undetected would be freaking nice.


in other words "i want to gather intel without any risk at all whatsoever"

Who says goons have no sense of humor?

Considering the most popular form of intel is denied the ship under this idea, and what intel they do gather they need to work for, it makes perfect sense.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2012-10-21 00:24:07 UTC
The entire AFK Cloaking issue is a result of Local Chat providing flawless intel, and the only way to counter this intel is to force the presence of something not actionable into it.
This results in either inactivity or risk by the pilots relying on local chat.

For reference, I have been on this topic and studied it a good deal.

Intel gathering using ships sensors instead of a chat channel:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread

Restore local chat to being a chat channel:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156965&find=unread
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#20 - 2012-10-21 06:15:11 UTC
The problem with AFK cloaky is that you don't know if there is a player or no behind the cloaked ship present in your system.
So it is useless to try to bait it if he is not there and it is impossible to farm in the system.
You have no way to hunt the guy. Of course you can go farm somewhere else but where is the interaction between players?

The problem with your solution is that cloak ship are scouts.... So with your option you cannot scout cloaky...


The first thing to do is to put a timer that if you are inactive the game will deconnect you (like in many other games)
This will not solve the problem but will be a good begin.
The second thing is to radically change the use of radars, sensors and scanners to make them really exciting.
Directional scan should be able to "see" cloaky ships, it should be able to make the difference between ally and hostile ships with audio alerts.
The directional scan should be able to auto activate every 10s / 30s.
Local channels should all be like Wormhole chans.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.