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Need help fitting a Vargur with T2 purger rigs
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Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-17 00:48:43 UTC
Hi all, just about to win an auction for a Vargur with T2 purger rigs.

Does anyone have a decent fit Vs Gurristas/Serpentis with these rigs? What would be the best fit with deadspace mods?

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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-17 01:09:09 UTC
Refit with better rigs? The Rattler is the only BS that can really passive tank well.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-17 01:10:58 UTC
Yeah i think better rigs are called for. I am thinking T2 CCC's as they should be the most versatile on the Vargur?

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Goose99
#4 - 2011-10-17 01:24:27 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Yeah i think better rigs are called for. I am thinking T2 CCC's as they should be the most versatile on the Vargur?


It has only 2 rig slots, use a t2 dmg rig and it will still have 100 left over for a ccc. Efficient usage without wasting calibration. Marauders have one less slot, most of the non-EFT warrior fits will end up with 3 instead of 4 gyros and 3 TE+TC, thus letting a t2 dmg rig to add real dps as opposed to stack half of 4th gyro to uselessness.
stoicfaux
#5 - 2011-10-17 02:37:21 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

It has only 2 rig slots, use a t2 dmg rig and it will still have 100 left over for a ccc. Efficient usage without wasting calibration. Marauders have one less slot, most of the non-EFT warrior fits will end up with 3 instead of 4 gyros and 3 TE+TC, thus letting a t2 dmg rig to add real dps as opposed to stack half of 4th gyro to uselessness.

Ignore Goose, he has issues with the "gank is tank" concept.


Here's what I fly in Minnie space and it works very well. It doesn't take much to adapt it to Guristas/Serpentis. If you don't like the Pithum C-Type shield booster, get a Large or X-Large T2 or Faction booster and pulse it.

For Guristas, use 2x Kinetic hardeners for 527 tank. However, because of jamming, you'll want the drop the Gryo II for a LADAR backup array, and swap a TC for ECCM Ladar. Even so, you'll probably wind up jammed a lot (Marauders and Guristas don't mix too well nowadays.)

For Serpentis, use a Kinetic and Thermal hardener (392 tank.) You can drop one of the TCs for another SBAII (500 tank.) Serpentis tend to have long range spawns, so having 72km of falloff is important (or 64km of falloff with just one TC.)

For the easier missions, swap the SBAII for an afterburner.

[Vargur, Level 4 - Pithum C]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Explosion Dampening Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-17 03:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Headerman
nice! A medium booster though? That is enough? The 2 TCs are awesome though, with a decent falloff implant and optimal range scripts, i could get 102km fall off with Barrage

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Goose99
#7 - 2011-10-17 04:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Headerman wrote:
nice! A medium booster though? That is enough? The 2 TCs are awesome though, with a decent falloff implant and optimal range scripts, i could get 102km fall off with Barrage


Ignore it. EFT warriors put up med pith boosters, then use exp dmg profile on high native exp shield resists to show barely passable but cap stable numbers on EFT. Keep in mind Marauders has around 1/3 bigger sig than typical BS, so you take more dmg. Without ab, there's no dmg mitigation for slowboat.

Real Vargur fits use typical 4 slot tank, large shield booster and pulse it, giving enough spike tank for toughest EM missions, without breaking the wallet. Exp dmg profile is the least useful to look at, as Angle rats do high dmg close in, but they don't live long enough to get there. Some of the highest spike dmg in lvl4s come from Amar faction and close spawning Merc, both of which are EM heavy. Sustained tank is not necessary, as dps will drop as you kill rats. Don't bother with both 4th gyro and t2 dmg rig, the 40 extra paper dps isn't worth a slot. It won't save you a volley on any rat. Fit ab to get around. It not only saves on pulse tank and closes in for more dps, but are useful for long gate runs. Don't use mwd, you can't start going towards gate while most rats are still around due to sig bloom, resulting in real travel time worse than ab. Plus cap problems, it's not worth it. Lastly, don't count on barrage range, it may not always match dmg type for missions.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2011-10-17 05:01:05 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

Ignore it. EFT warriors put up med pith boosters

You do understand that the Pith/Pithum boosters basically perform as if they were one size category larger? But with the added advantage of lower fitting requirements and being pretty easy to be cap stable.
Large SB II - 60 hp/s
Pithum C Medium SB - 54.3 hp/s (~375 mission isk)
Pithum B Medium SB - 64.7 hp/s (~750 million isk)
Pithum A Medium SB - 76 hp/s (1.2 billion isk)
The only issue is price.

Quote:
Real Vargur fits use typical 4 slot tank, large shield booster and pulse it, giving enough spike tank for toughest EM missions, without breaking the wallet. Exp dmg profile is the least useful to look at, as Angle rats do high dmg close in, but they don't live long enough to get there. Some of the highest spike dmg in lvl4s come from Amar faction and close spawning Merc, both of which are EM heavy.

Given that I would tank Sansha/BR missions in a mostly stationary Golem with a Pithum C Medium booster, I don't see the problem.

However, if you want a safe bursty tank for EM (or Amarr,) then use an XL booster + Medium Cap Booster + 2 hardeners (547 tank vs Em/Therm.) A Large booster can be a bit anemic against EM opponents (399 tank.)

Quote:
Don't bother with both 4th gyro and t2 dmg rig, the 40 extra paper dps isn't worth a slot. It won't save you a volley on any rat.

Your numbers are off. It's a 108 DPS (11.1%) reduction in DPS if you drop the Gryo II and the T2 RoF rig. With two TCs, a TE, and an Ambit rig, a T2 damage/RoF rig is the only rig you can fit that provides a noticeable DPS boost, so you might as well use it.

Quote:
Don't use mwd, you can't start going towards gate while most rats are still around due to sig bloom, resulting in real travel time worse than ab. Plus cap problems, it's not worth it. Lastly, don't count on barrage range, it may not always match dmg type for missions.

Agreed. The Vargur is about as agile as a beached space whale, and you'll need two MWD cycles just to get up to speed. AB is better than the MWD. Of course the NPCs are normally using their psuedo-MWD to close the range, so the AB often doesn't seem to make a significant difference.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-17 06:58:16 UTC
Here is an XL booster setup, 1996 dps tank with booster running, shouldn't have to run it much as the ship does 1165 dps with RF phased plasma with 60km falloff, that is in range of pretty much all serpentis rats as they tend to max out around 50km. Barrage has enough kinetic to be viable if you need extra range (with the dps output of this ship you could shoot completely wrong damage types and still melt rats). Cap booster wont fit at all, the vargur has soo little grid you would have to take off almost your entire tank to fit one.

[Vargur, gurista/serpentis pve vargur]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Gist A-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist B-Type 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Ejit
STD contractors
#10 - 2011-10-17 17:37:56 UTC
I don't like all these medium booster fits.

They are not enough and you waste a extra slot with a boost amp. and if you screw up and hit the trigger in some missions you'll be warping out.

You don't need to be cap stable.

If your engineering skills are on 5. Invest in a Squire CC8 for slot 8 and a Squire CR8 for slot 6.

2 CCC II's

Large shield booster of your choice (Pith X types are under 500 mill)

With all the above you'll get 6:30 seconds of repping which is more than enough.

If you can't kill off incoming dps in under the 5 mins with a Vargur then something is very wrong.

Kazia Fey
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-18 00:05:55 UTC
Sell the Vargur, get a Machariel, only run Angel Missions.

Will be the most profitable decision you ever make.

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Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-18 00:51:43 UTC
Ejit wrote:
I don't like all these medium booster fits.

They are not enough and you waste a extra slot with a boost amp. and if you screw up and hit the trigger in some missions you'll be warping out.

You don't need to be cap stable.

If your engineering skills are on 5. Invest in a Squire CC8 for slot 8 and a Squire CR8 for slot 6.

2 CCC II's

Large shield booster of your choice (Pith X types are under 500 mill)

With all the above you'll get 6:30 seconds of repping which is more than enough.

If you can't kill off incoming dps in under the 5 mins with a Vargur then something is very wrong.



And you are an idiot who doesn't understand that you really don't actually NEED a ******* tank. I used to run solo nightmares in lvl 4's, pumping out over 1000dps at range (and pumping out the wrong damage types too, as if that really matters 90% of the time). For tank, I had 1 T2 large shield booster. Which means that I had all of 250 dps tank... And I never ever hit armor. Hell, I rarely ever bothered running the booster. Just had it on in case I messed up spawns... which I didn't... because even without checking eve-survival I have all the stupid missions memorized like the back of my hand.

-Arazel
Goose99
#13 - 2011-10-18 02:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
stoicfaux wrote:

Quote:
Don't bother with both 4th gyro and t2 dmg rig, the 40 extra paper dps isn't worth a slot. It won't save you a volley on any rat.

Your numbers are off. It's a 108 DPS (11.1%) reduction in DPS if you drop the Gryo II and the T2 RoF rig. With two TCs, a TE, and an Ambit rig, a T2 damage/RoF rig is the only rig you can fit that provides a noticeable DPS boost, so you might as well use it.





I didn't say drop both 4th gyro and t2 rof rig, just the 4th gyro to give an extra slot, so that you won't have to run with 3 slot tank. So the dps drop is much less than 108 dps, and not enough to save you a volley anyway at already ~1k dps range. This produces no real dps drop, but will give you a cookie-cutter 4 slot tank, which matters for EM rats.

Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Ejit wrote:
I don't like all these medium booster fits.

They are not enough and you waste a extra slot with a boost amp. and if you screw up and hit the trigger in some missions you'll be warping out.

You don't need to be cap stable.

If your engineering skills are on 5. Invest in a Squire CC8 for slot 8 and a Squire CR8 for slot 6.

2 CCC II's

Large shield booster of your choice (Pith X types are under 500 mill)

With all the above you'll get 6:30 seconds of repping which is more than enough.

If you can't kill off incoming dps in under the 5 mins with a Vargur then something is very wrong.



And you are an idiot who doesn't understand that you really don't actually NEED a ******* tank. I used to run solo nightmares in lvl 4's, pumping out over 1000dps at range (and pumping out the wrong damage types too, as if that really matters 90% of the time). For tank, I had 1 T2 large shield booster. Which means that I had all of 250 dps tank... And I never ever hit armor. Hell, I rarely ever bothered running the booster. Just had it on in case I messed up spawns... which I didn't... because even without checking eve-survival I have all the stupid missions memorized like the back of my hand.

-Arazel


Vargur/Mach's falloff isn't free optimal of NM. I've used all 3. With Tachs being what they are, NM kills EM rats significantly faster. You will notice this too had you flew both, it feels obvious in BS heavy missions.

The gank equals tank concept is sound, but it applies to cap life and sustained defense, not spike defense. Vargur with ACs has plenty of grid left, there is no reason to not fit an appropriate sized booster. Putting in an overpriced med booster gives you no extra dps in itself, only creating situations where you have to warp out soon after warping in. There is no pro, only con. There are missions where you warp into heavy dps, that's when to pulse the spike tank. You cannot kill majority of rats instantly to reduce dmg, shooting takes time.
bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-18 16:54:11 UTC
This might sound controversial but an ACR rig is what lets you get the best out of this ship.

With an ACR you can fit 4x 800 II, the most expensive Pith XL Booster you want to pay for (theyre very cheap) and a Heavy Injector. That then leaves you free to fit a couple of hardeners, 2x TC II, 4 x RF Gyro and a TE II and even leaves you with an empty rig slot to do with as you will.

Has enough cargo space to carry loads of 800 charges, not that you'll need them for the majority of missions. You've got the full compliment of damage mods, 3 range mods and a massive tank. What you do with the last rig slot is very much up to you. It will fit the T2 damage rig if you want to, though obviously the stacking is horrible. I run a Capacitor Safeguard II but as i say you can fit literally anything you want.

The only real downside is the lack of AB/MWD tho tbh once you get used to it for missions where its really handy to have one (like Recon 2 and 3) you'll find yourself leaving the injector off and fitting an MWD anyways.
bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-10-18 16:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: bldyannoyed
GRRRRR double post.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-18 17:14:09 UTC
Goose99 wrote:


Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Ejit wrote:
I don't like all these medium booster fits.

They are not enough and you waste a extra slot with a boost amp. and if you screw up and hit the trigger in some missions you'll be warping out.

You don't need to be cap stable.

If your engineering skills are on 5. Invest in a Squire CC8 for slot 8 and a Squire CR8 for slot 6.

2 CCC II's

Large shield booster of your choice (Pith X types are under 500 mill)

With all the above you'll get 6:30 seconds of repping which is more than enough.

If you can't kill off incoming dps in under the 5 mins with a Vargur then something is very wrong.



And you are an idiot who doesn't understand that you really don't actually NEED a ******* tank. I used to run solo nightmares in lvl 4's, pumping out over 1000dps at range (and pumping out the wrong damage types too, as if that really matters 90% of the time). For tank, I had 1 T2 large shield booster. Which means that I had all of 250 dps tank... And I never ever hit armor. Hell, I rarely ever bothered running the booster. Just had it on in case I messed up spawns... which I didn't... because even without checking eve-survival I have all the stupid missions memorized like the back of my hand.

-Arazel


Vargur/Mach's falloff isn't free optimal of NM. I've used all 3. With Tachs being what they are, NM kills EM rats significantly faster. You will notice this too had you flew both, it feels obvious in BS heavy missions.

The gank equals tank concept is sound, but it applies to cap life and sustained defense, not spike defense. Vargur with ACs has plenty of grid left, there is no reason to not fit an appropriate sized booster. Putting in an overpriced med booster gives you no extra dps in itself, only creating situations where you have to warp out soon after warping in. There is no pro, only con. There are missions where you warp into heavy dps, that's when to pulse the spike tank. You cannot kill majority of rats instantly to reduce dmg, shooting takes time.


I haven't used a vargur, but I have used a mach. If anything, it has less to worry about than a nightmare, even when I don't bother moving. Angel Extra? never ran the booster once, and that was killing everything on the field. As for shooting EM rats... who the heck said anything about shooting EM weak rats? I used the nightmare to kill everything from sansha to serpentis to guristas to angels. The only one that ever posed any sort of threat to the tank was the angels, and thats just because I was too lazy to refit the tachs for pulse lasers. Then later got a mach and did the same thing with it - if anything, its easier with the mach.

As for spike dps - thats what buffer is for. Yeah, you aren't always going to be sitting at 100% shields. Get used to it. Heck, you might sometimes get all the way down to 30% shields. Doesn't matter. Unless you get up and walk away from your computer, or mess up the aggro, you will not have to worry about tank on all but a few missions (blockade is the only one that really comes to mind, but I've only flown the serpentis one). Gank IS your tank is very real.

-Arazel
Goose99
#17 - 2011-10-18 18:03:17 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Goose99 wrote:


Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Ejit wrote:
I don't like all these medium booster fits.

They are not enough and you waste a extra slot with a boost amp. and if you screw up and hit the trigger in some missions you'll be warping out.

You don't need to be cap stable.

If your engineering skills are on 5. Invest in a Squire CC8 for slot 8 and a Squire CR8 for slot 6.

2 CCC II's

Large shield booster of your choice (Pith X types are under 500 mill)

With all the above you'll get 6:30 seconds of repping which is more than enough.

If you can't kill off incoming dps in under the 5 mins with a Vargur then something is very wrong.



And you are an idiot who doesn't understand that you really don't actually NEED a ******* tank. I used to run solo nightmares in lvl 4's, pumping out over 1000dps at range (and pumping out the wrong damage types too, as if that really matters 90% of the time). For tank, I had 1 T2 large shield booster. Which means that I had all of 250 dps tank... And I never ever hit armor. Hell, I rarely ever bothered running the booster. Just had it on in case I messed up spawns... which I didn't... because even without checking eve-survival I have all the stupid missions memorized like the back of my hand.

-Arazel


Vargur/Mach's falloff isn't free optimal of NM. I've used all 3. With Tachs being what they are, NM kills EM rats significantly faster. You will notice this too had you flew both, it feels obvious in BS heavy missions.

The gank equals tank concept is sound, but it applies to cap life and sustained defense, not spike defense. Vargur with ACs has plenty of grid left, there is no reason to not fit an appropriate sized booster. Putting in an overpriced med booster gives you no extra dps in itself, only creating situations where you have to warp out soon after warping in. There is no pro, only con. There are missions where you warp into heavy dps, that's when to pulse the spike tank. You cannot kill majority of rats instantly to reduce dmg, shooting takes time.


I haven't used a vargur, but I have used a mach. If anything, it has less to worry about than a nightmare, even when I don't bother moving. Angel Extra? never ran the booster once, and that was killing everything on the field. As for shooting EM rats... who the heck said anything about shooting EM weak rats? I used the nightmare to kill everything from sansha to serpentis to guristas to angels. The only one that ever posed any sort of threat to the tank was the angels, and thats just because I was too lazy to refit the tachs for pulse lasers. Then later got a mach and did the same thing with it - if anything, its easier with the mach.

As for spike dps - thats what buffer is for. Yeah, you aren't always going to be sitting at 100% shields. Get used to it. Heck, you might sometimes get all the way down to 30% shields. Doesn't matter. Unless you get up and walk away from your computer, or mess up the aggro, you will not have to worry about tank on all but a few missions (blockade is the only one that really comes to mind, but I've only flown the serpentis one). Gank IS your tank is very real.

-Arazel


Get a clue.

AE 5th room's real dps is a joke compared to Smash the Supplier, Stop the Thief, etc. as well as some of the epic arcs. Keep in mind that fitting a med booster instead of real booster gives you no more gank over using a real booster. Both takes one slot, and AC Vargur has extra grid. This self-inflicted gimp is pointless. Same goes for 4 gyros plus a t2 dmg rig. The 4th gyro gives ~40 dps for a slot. It won't save you any vollies.
bldyannoyed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-10-18 19:00:34 UTC
Smash the Supplier is a *****.

Even my fit with a Pith X-type XL can struggle to keep up with that.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#19 - 2011-10-18 19:18:16 UTC
i like mine to be a split gank is tank and also i tend to have random RL aggro and dont want to loose ship...

so i did this:

rigs:
2 tech II CCC

lows:
dcu II
2 te II
2 domination gyros

mids:
100 mn domi ab
2 dg invuls
gist c-type xl booster
shiled boost amp II
cap recharger II (this can be subbed for a resistance amp or tc or tp)

highs:
4 800's II
2 tractors
1 salvage II

it perma runs the shiled booster and invuls

so its a mix between lots of dps plus idiot proff looses...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Goose99
#20 - 2011-10-18 19:59:14 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i like mine to be a split gank is tank and also i tend to have random RL aggro and dont want to loose ship...

so i did this:

rigs:
2 tech II CCC

lows:
dcu II
2 te II
2 domination gyros

mids:
100 mn domi ab
2 dg invuls
gist c-type xl booster
shiled boost amp II
cap recharger II (this can be subbed for a resistance amp or tc or tp)

highs:
4 800's II
2 tractors
1 salvage II

it perma runs the shiled booster and invuls

so its a mix between lots of dps plus idiot proff looses...

Only 2 gyros, 2 range mods, no dmg rig. You're losing a lot of gank and range.

Use this instead:

[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Invulnerability Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5

1165 dps, 70km falloff, high spike tank. You can add a 4th gyro, but it will only increase dps by 40. It won't save any extra volleys.
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