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High-sec X-LASB Neutpest?
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Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#1 - 2012-10-14 15:15:06 UTC
I'm not much of a fitting person so I thought I'd ask, what would be a good neuting Tempest for Highsec? Got a wardec coming my way so I want to prepare a bit. I'd ask one of my corpmates but they're not familiar with fitting a lot of pvp ships.

I clunked together this fit with an X-LASB, though I can't really tell if it will work for the task at hand.

[Tempest, X-LASB Neut]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L


Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Hornet EC-300 x5
Valkyrie II x5

The ships I'm most concerned about getting the upper hand on is an Abaddon and a Proteus the wardeccing corp uses (not at the same time). I'm guessing the Proteus is not something I can kill without an organized fleet because of the brick tank it has. Next best would be to turn off its guns I was thinking.

I can drop the Co-Processor if I use meta guns, as I currently don't have the skills for T2 yet (theorycrafting for the 'when'). Is it a no-go without Barrage at hand? Or shield I go for a passive neutpest instead?
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-10-14 15:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: TriadSte
From what you said,that being ur corp mates have no pvp experience you will die and lose anything you field.

Ill give you some tips.

1. Hire help - good help.
2. Set up some instant un dock bookmarks 300k away from station should do it and make some bookmarks all around the station and system. This just pisses the wardeccers off so its a mental win.

Regarding the Proteus:

Neuts are the way to kill it if its active tanking.
Its long range weapons are terribad and if you allow it close up you deserve to die.
Keep it at range, neut it and kill it.

If its a buffer tank then you'll simply need 3-4 guys in decent DPS ships to sort it out in a timely fashion. It will probably be using 2-3 1600mm plates so its going to be as slow as a snail use that to your advantage.

If you can fly a curse, this will eat a active tanked Proteus alive.

Doesnt sound like you can though if you cant use T2 weapons

I personally wouldn't use the tempest against the Proteus because you have got to dictate range to win, dictating range means you need speed, a pest isn't quick enough.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#3 - 2012-10-14 15:42:48 UTC
TriadSte wrote:

If you can fly a curse, this will eat a active tanked Proteus alive.

Doesnt sound like you can though if you cant use T2 weapons

I personally wouldn't use the tempest against the Proteus because you have got to dictate range to win, dictating range means you need speed, a pest isn't quick enough.



This.

If you, or ANYONE in your corp can fly it, the Curse will make the Proteus, and especially the Abaddon cry. Abaddon is a brutal hard hitting ship, with one of the best BS tanks in game, but its Cap demands could supply a small city, so it is very vulnerable to cap warfare. Being a large gun ship it will also be very vulnerable to TD's.

Vs. Proteus TD's will help a lot as well, but I would say webs will be more important just to keep him at distance in general. Cap the hell out of it and grab a snickers bar, you will be a while trying to kill it.

Your corp is newish to pvp, go with cheap ships as much as possible. Try to get someone in a Curse (2 would be ideal), and one or two pple into tacklers with good tank. The drone swarm will do its job well, and if you have TD's on the Prot, it should not be able to counter them unless its running a smart bomb or has backup.

If you can take down the Proteus, and you lost a few T1's, maybe a Curse or 3, you will definitely be in the lead, and they will not be overly eager to keep the wardec going unless they are very rich. Twisted

~Z

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-14 16:15:37 UTC
If you don't have T2 guns you should not be flying the associated ship class in pvp. Ship down.

Also, if they are only using larger ships, stealth bombers are a lot of fun :D
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-10-14 16:44:25 UTC
Join sisi, hang about in the combat area for about 20 minutes, when you see a vargur show up, ask them to post fit.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-10-14 19:00:28 UTC
Also if you don't fancy taking on the wardec just join Dec Shield alliance and they will wipe the wardec from you in 24 hours.

See here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156437
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#7 - 2012-10-14 20:42:46 UTC
Thanks for all the replies so far. It's not like I'll go out trying to solo these guys, but the pvp experience in the corp is somewhat low. None of us can get in a Curse soon so will have to scratch that idea for the moment. Planning to whip the corp into better pvp shape as well, which was the plan even without the wardec.

I'm thinking the test server might be a good idea in general, good way to test out fits, tactics and general teamwork. If fighting the wardec corp turns out badly we'll consider the Dec Shield alliance probably.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#8 - 2012-10-14 22:15:10 UTC
Only fit ASBs in couples. A single is worse than useless because while it'll keep you alive as long as it has fuel once it runs dry you're pretty much a sitting duck. Better to have two larges than one xl.
Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2012-10-19 02:10:35 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Only fit ASBs in couples. A single is worse than useless because while it'll keep you alive as long as it has fuel once it runs dry you're pretty much a sitting duck. Better to have two larges than one xl.
I don't buy the generalization myself. You don't have to perma-run your ASBs. One XL boosts more than twice as much as 2 larges, so it's actually more effective to run a single XL in terms of total rep amount - just pulse it as needed. You can turn off auto-repeat to make this easier.

I quite like that pest fit. The dual neuts fueled by the injector allows you to neut out cap dependent ships. So you could easily turn off the guns of a proteus and kill it.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#10 - 2012-10-19 12:09:05 UTC
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Only fit ASBs in couples. A single is worse than useless because while it'll keep you alive as long as it has fuel once it runs dry you're pretty much a sitting duck. Better to have two larges than one xl.
I don't buy the generalization myself. You don't have to perma-run your ASBs. One XL boosts more than twice as much as 2 larges, so it's actually more effective to run a single XL in terms of total rep amount - just pulse it as needed. You can turn off auto-repeat to make this easier.

I quite like that pest fit. The dual neuts fueled by the injector allows you to neut out cap dependent ships. So you could easily turn off the guns of a proteus and kill it.

Hmm that is true... I haven't run with a lot of ASB fits yet so didn't think of that. Will be in a gang with this ship as well so I'm not attempting to solo ships that has the advantage over it.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#11 - 2012-10-19 15:51:38 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Only fit ASBs in couples. A single is worse than useless because while it'll keep you alive as long as it has fuel once it runs dry you're pretty much a sitting duck. Better to have two larges than one xl.


This is quite inaccurate.

1 ASB will usually give you more EHP than a passive buffer provided you can stay alive with it for alittle bit with the HP/s it provides.

A perfect example would be the ASB cyclone.

One charge on the ASB cyclone will give you as much EHP as a passive tank fit cyclone.

Using a full magazine of navy cap charges will give you more than double the EHP of a passive cyclone.

If your ship can fit 2 ASBs, you are generally better off with that, at least until CCP fixes the absurd tanking capabilities of double ASB.

Some ships, like the cyclone, cannot fit 2 ASBs. You could fit 2 large ASBs on a cyclone, but you are better off with 1 XL
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#12 - 2012-10-19 16:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Silk daShocka
If you want to invest in a Maelstrom you can get a similar fit, although u will probably lose some DPS due to the neuts and not fitting the 8 guns on the Mael. You do however get a bigger drone bay, better cap, more hp, and a better tank.

A quick fit a threw together for ya:

[Maelstrom, Maelstrom fit]

Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II

Warp Disruptor II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Swap out the Anti-EM screen for another extender or a burst aerator if you dont think u need the EM resist.

490 DPS with EMP faction 40km faloff. 563 with heat.
546 DPS with Hail 30km faloff. 628 w/heat.

Cap stable @ 68% with MWD off, booster running.

1716 dps tank both ASBs running, all tank heated.

784 hp/s tank 1 ASB heated. 606 cool.


Since you said you are a bit new to ASB fits, using 2 ASBs you can run one while the other recharges, letting you keep this tank up till your cargo is empty.

Always heat them, they do little heat damage.

Also, in regards to your question about barrage, you won't want to use barrage unless you need more than 40km falloff. Considering your running neuts, you probably want to be in range to use the neuts, and probably dont need that falloff.

By changing 1 gyro for 1 tracking enhancer and using EMP (or PP or fusion, situational ofc, only difference being the damage types) instead of barrage, you lose about 5km falloff and gain DPS as well as alot of tracking.

Also, blue pill, if you wanna do that.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#13 - 2012-10-19 20:11:12 UTC
Despite what was said before, you don't need T2 weapons to be effective. You might also adjust your shield rigs to em, therm, and kinetic, the primary dmg types that they have against you. And my biggest suggestion:

ECM Drones

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#14 - 2012-10-20 00:37:31 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
If you want to invest in a Maelstrom you can get a similar fit, although...

A quick fit a threw together for ya:

[Maelstrom, Maelstrom fit]

Modules


Swap out the Anti-EM screen for another extender or a burst aerator if you dont think u need the EM resist.

Statistics


Since you said you are a bit new to ASB fits, using 2 ASBs you can run one while the other recharges, letting you keep this tank up till your cargo is empty.

Always heat them, they do little heat damage.

Also, in regards to your question about barrage, you won't want to use barrage unless you need more than 40km falloff. Considering your running neuts, you probably want to be in range to use the neuts, and probably dont need that falloff.

By changing 1 gyro for 1 tracking enhancer and using EMP (or PP or fusion, situational ofc, only difference being the damage types) instead of barrage, you lose about 5km falloff and gain DPS as well as alot of tracking.

Also, blue pill, if you wanna do that.


Interesting to use the Maelstrom instead, never seen it done so didn't think about that. Thanks for the other advice ad well, I don't usually do much theorycrafting as I prefer some action. As for the blue pill, I've never tried any kind of drugs. I know some rarely gets side effects while others seemingly get them more often, unrelated to skills. ( I know there are mechanics behind them of course... Just now how they work properly.)

Val'Dore wrote:
Despite what was said before, you don't need T2 weapons to be effective. You might also adjust your shield rigs to em, therm, and kinetic, the primary dmg types that they have against you. And my biggest suggestion:

ECM Drones


I can see the use in the EM rig, but won't at least the kinetic one get stacking penalized so an extender is better, as they both increase the signature anyways?

Got a flight of light ECM in there. Should I carry 2 flights of light ECM and a flight of Warrior II's instead?
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#15 - 2012-10-20 04:34:49 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:
If you want to invest in a Maelstrom you can get a similar fit, although...

A quick fit a threw together for ya:

[Maelstrom, Maelstrom fit]

Modules


Swap out the Anti-EM screen for another extender or a burst aerator if you dont think u need the EM resist.

Statistics


Since you said you are a bit new to ASB fits, using 2 ASBs you can run one while the other recharges, letting you keep this tank up till your cargo is empty.

Always heat them, they do little heat damage.

Also, in regards to your question about barrage, you won't want to use barrage unless you need more than 40km falloff. Considering your running neuts, you probably want to be in range to use the neuts, and probably dont need that falloff.

By changing 1 gyro for 1 tracking enhancer and using EMP (or PP or fusion, situational ofc, only difference being the damage types) instead of barrage, you lose about 5km falloff and gain DPS as well as alot of tracking.

Also, blue pill, if you wanna do that.


Interesting to use the Maelstrom instead, never seen it done so didn't think about that. Thanks for the other advice ad well, I don't usually do much theorycrafting as I prefer some action. As for the blue pill, I've never tried any kind of drugs. I know some rarely gets side effects while others seemingly get them more often, unrelated to skills. ( I know there are mechanics behind them of course... Just now how they work properly.)

Val'Dore wrote:
Despite what was said before, you don't need T2 weapons to be effective. You might also adjust your shield rigs to em, therm, and kinetic, the primary dmg types that they have against you. And my biggest suggestion:

ECM Drones


I can see the use in the EM rig, but won't at least the kinetic one get stacking penalized so an extender is better, as they both increase the signature anyways?

Got a flight of light ECM in there. Should I carry 2 flights of light ECM and a flight of Warrior II's instead?


Generally, if you're using ECM drones, you're probably going to want to leave them on the field while you warp off, so having a backup is never a bad idea.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#16 - 2012-10-20 08:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Join sisi, hang about in the combat area for about 20 minutes, when you see a vargur show up, ask them to post fit.


Probably the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-10-20 11:10:53 UTC
that maelstrom looks like a better pest than the pest is and thats sad :P

pests are best not tanking anything directly, slap on a buffer and keep it cheap and fast.

active tanking stuff is DEFINITELY best left to the 7 low slot slot armor boats or 5+ mid with tank bonus ships.

pest is really just a really big vagabond

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Doddy
Excidium.
#18 - 2012-10-20 11:58:22 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Only fit ASBs in couples. A single is worse than useless because while it'll keep you alive as long as it has fuel once it runs dry you're pretty much a sitting duck. Better to have two larges than one xl.


What you smoking etc.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#19 - 2012-10-20 16:10:55 UTC
Kosetzu wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Despite what was said before, you don't need T2 weapons to be effective. You might also adjust your shield rigs to em, therm, and kinetic, the primary dmg types that they have against you. And my biggest suggestion:

ECM Drones


I can see the use in the EM rig, but won't at least the kinetic one get stacking penalized so an extender is better, as they both increase the signature anyways?

Got a flight of light ECM in there. Should I carry 2 flights of light ECM and a flight of Warrior II's instead?


Well, look at the ships you will be fighting: Abaddon and Proteus.

Between them they do massive Thermal damage and solid EM and Kinetic damage. So you want to mitigate that as much as possible, which still may not be enough with an invuln II and those three rigs. The natural stacking penalty one will apply to the rigs, yes.

You will probably want all your drones to be ECM, and you want the biggest ones you can field.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2012-10-20 19:19:30 UTC
I don't think you're going to get very far in highsec using any kind of active shield tanked battleship. In my fairly extensive experience of highsec the vast majority of fighting occurs on gates and most of the time one party will either immediately try and escape or try and escape very soon after the fight starts when they realize things are going south.

Without a web or a scram you won't be able to prevent your target from either burning back to a gate or getting out of your warp disruption range before you can kill him. Moreover the lock time is going to be long because you have no sensor booster, so good luck catching anything before it can warp off in the first place.

My suggestion is to armor up that tempest and fit webs and a sensor booster, keep the cap booster, guns and neuts and you're probably going to do better.