EVE General Discussion

Most GD hate on either side of the coin is boredom.

The majority of EVE is Null sec, Ex Null Sec and RMT. As much as Null people hate on high sec they know full well they aren't fooling anyone. Everyone in High Sec has done the null Sec thing. The also know why those people are back in High Sec. Taking Sov is a PvP affair. After that it becomes a waiting game and a grind to get sov levels up. The PvP people get bored and move on or drop sub. The Alliances become vulnerable and they lose it all to the next FotM. Repeat and rinse for 9 years.

I really don't blame Goons for doing what they do. It's not about miners. It's about keeping their PvP people alert and active. They know what apathy does to you in EVE. True they are like all Null alliances a little paranoid, convinced everyone is out to get them but mostly it's about active participation. Morale in EVE is down. I don't have any silver bullets or miracle cures but I know throwing away all my ISK in fruitless PvP isn't the answer so like everyone else in High Sec I wait and hope something happens.

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As for ISK, it's about war chests. Look at Null War chests. They dwarf anything you see in High Sec. ISK is better in Null but in either case it's about building a War chest. Be it corp or private. Argument A: The more they nerf, the longer it takes to get a war chest. The logical and proven counter argument, the more war chests out there, the higher inflation is, you never really come out with more edge. In 2005 being a billionaire meant you were good to go. head to null, make your mark. Now it's be a hundred billionaire and consider it.

Another reality that ties the two together. I was in NC when it fell. The alliance I was in was handing out any ship people could fly in anticipation of the at the time, FotM super cap blob of PL. There were no pilots to be had. The war chest was useless. That alliance was just getting on its feet. They were about to purchase two Nyx. The had just come in to their status but weren't strong enough to confront the I-Win super cap blobs of the day. Yes, CCP nerfed it, after the damage was done. Like they have done so many times before.

Blow it up, build it up, blow it up, build it up, blow it up build it up. EVE is old. Blow it up, build it up is old. We need better objectives. Even a sandbox gets boring after a while.

What a load of meretricious honk presented as fact. Anyone who reads this and doesn't laugh is wrong.

Way to jump in there and correct them...

It's all about perception : people who stay in high sec are called carebears, cowards...
But how would you call the fact to attack harmless targets unable to defend themselves ?
Me, i call that carebear, coward.
Give people who do something else than pvp (missions, mining, hauling, industry, etc...) the ability to defend themselves and they'll come to low/null.
You want fair fights or easy targets ?

When you go out to roam with your pvp ship, you need no one and nothing, you are a pvp machine. When you go out to do something else, you are TOTALLY vulnerable, or you need an escort. But an escort is terrible in terms of cost, it's absolutely not a rational solution to run a productive activity with the actual game mechanisms. That is not balanced. Fights against non-pvp ships should be more risky than they are now.
I think that most of that can be solved by changing the way ships are fitted.
I don't ask that people in non-pvp ships can be as effective as people in pvp ships, of course not, that would make no sense, but that they can at least fit their ship in a way that they can still be effective at their task while having a reasonable chance to defend themselves or flee. Yes, it's easy to flee when you go in LS with a frigate or a cruiser, but you produce nothing much with such ships, you need bigger ships to make serious business (mission, mining, hauling etc...), and actually bigger ships in low/null sec is pure suicide.
So as result, low/null sec is a place only to pvp, and that's the problem. EVE is not made only for pvpers, it's absolutely stupid to say that, you need people who produce too, and people who consume, or the game can't function.
There should be a way to equip a ship which is not pure pvp to give you more survivability against pvpers. Then, only then, you can motivate them to come out of high sec to play in the whole sandbox.

But they will never accept passevely to be your easy targets.
Do you really think that people are SO stupid ?


Edit : i'd like to devellop a bit more my idea :
When you go out with 10 ships to pvp, you take 10 pvp ships. 100% effective.
Now to do any other kind of activity in a non-safe environment, you need protection. So if you take 10 ships to do something else (mining, mission, hauling, whatever...), you will take say 5 ships for the activity itself and 5 ships for the protection. 50% effective.
Now let's imagine that, just like in real life, the pvpers (the armies, the warriors) need to transport (for example) their fuel and food to function. They would also get their effectivity reduce to say 50%. That would be fair.
I think that it would be such a great improvment to force the composition of fleets to be mixed. It would balance everything. The example i gave was maybe stupid, but you see the logic i mean behind : if you need a heavy logistic to do a productive activity in dangerous space, you should also need a heavy logistic to go to war as well. In fact it's the pvp which is too easy in EVE, not the other activities. The first newcommer with a few weeks (days ???) training can blow any non-pvp ship... that's the proof that there's a need to balance the difficulty.

To conclude, i'd say that the word pvp means nothing : We should make the difference between pvp involving only pvp ships, which is fair obviously, but is not producing anything, and pvp against non-pvp (productive) ships, which is unfair and the reason why people are not silly enough to go in low/null to do something else than pvp...
Pvp against non-pvp targets costs absolutely nothing at absolutely no risk... it's totally carebear, that.

I had to look up "meretricious".

No no no. When you insult someone, much thought and time should be invested in coming up with something subtle so your mark cant just dismiss you as a cave dwelling mouth breather.

Firstly great post. To me it really brought out an interesting point about how a lot of current thinking is 'risk vs reward is imbalanced, lets increase/decrease reward' and not as much thinking of 'risk vs reward is imbalanced, how can we change risk'.



This is a great point. Given the current mechanics there seems to be a huge jump from the mostly risk free high sec and the dangers of getting blown up in low. Some kind of middle ground would be great. Something like in 0.7-0.5 allowing people to shoot each other without concord interference but disabling warp scrambling, so mid mission if someone comes you have to get out (interrupts your mission which is annoying etc) but you dont just instantly lose that shiny big ship you worked so hard for. Same sort of thing for mining. Obviously this isnt the most elegant or thought through mechanic, but I'd love to hear more ideas to bring in some kind of middle ground between high and low sec.

In changes this we wouldn't need to remove safe high sec so there will still be places for people to live how they currently do, and I couldn't see it affecting null/low any more than the current high sec.

Just my thoughts.

no the idea of carrying 'space food' to fly your 'pvp ship' is mindbogglingly stupid

The real problem people have with high-sec? It's different to how other people play, and since THEY don't play that way, that way sucks and everyone who plays that was does so because they're too bad to play their way.

Incorrect, we're pointing out that hisec is too convenient and much too good in comparison with nullsec, which means that all manufacturing (outside of supercaps and a few weirdoes who insist on making stuff locally) happen in hisec, and everything is imported to nullsec.


There's only three things worth doing in nullsec:
1) Shooting people in the face
2) Making supercaps
3) Extract PI

Everything else is better done in hisec, especially when looking at the effort you put in to do so. There's nothing positive to sell nullsec on anymore, apart from large fleets, and that's not what a lot of people wants to do.


How would increasing some base costs "alienate the hisec playerbase"?


What the hell sort of nerfs are you thinking of? They must be pretty drastic to turn hisec into a "copy of broken null-sec".