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Issler, I'm Curious and Hope You'll Reply

First post
Author
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#41 - 2012-10-12 08:30:52 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
As for ice prices, markets work, if miners aren't happy with the prices they have the freedom to do something else with their time.

Issler



Do you regret that current miner greed is damaging the future of mining for those not involved yet? I'm talking specifically about new players who might desire to enter the career of mining, if there's any ambiguity.



I think this is a legitimate question, seeing as we agree that the market works.


That is kind of funny, CCP did design roids to only respawn for after downtime, which is a pita for me, since I can only log on at night, which means most roids will be gone, and will only respawn when its bed time. One of the main reasons I quit mining in the first place.

Ice is alright, but it is wierd, that it is always there and never runs out. Compared to other things in the game.


Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#42 - 2012-10-12 08:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
rodyas wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
As for ice prices, markets work, if miners aren't happy with the prices they have the freedom to do something else with their time.

Issler



Do you regret that current miner greed is damaging the future of mining for those not involved yet? I'm talking specifically about new players who might desire to enter the career of mining, if there's any ambiguity.



I think this is a legitimate question, seeing as we agree that the market works.


That is kind of funny, CCP did design roids to only respawn for after downtime, which is a pita for me, since I can only log on at night, which means most roids will be gone, and will only respawn when its bed time. One of the main reasons I quit mining in the first place.

Ice is alright, but it is wierd, that it is always there and never runs out. Compared to other things in the game.


I used to experience this too, in Erindur, trying to mine Omber in my freaking sweet mining Vexor (I used Harvester drones) when there was ore. That was a very long time ago. High-sec miners have gotten a lot of buffs and concessions since 2006.

I am sorry this still happens today, and hope the upcoming changes will make it possible for miners to see ore in the belts again, instead of just empty space.

With risk comes opportunity.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#43 - 2012-10-12 08:55:14 UTC
Yeah, not sure how much of the missing ore goes to risk , or CCPs love of one shard. I don't hate the one shard idea, its cool. But a lot of other games, have servers for different time zones making it more fair in a way for harvesters. Or they have respawning ore.

I would prefer more of a new mechanism off all the time zones that play this game, rather then a blanket respawn ore but who knows.

Yeah lots of buffs indeed. I always thought logistics would help mining out a lot, and with the huge cargo bays, it almost did that. But with most roids gone, if you don't log in early, more extreme logistics is needed to counter it or so.

Take me a while SP wise to be able to counter or build enough logistics, be fun when its built but will just take a long time.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#44 - 2012-10-12 09:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
rodyas wrote:
Yeah, not sure how much of the missing ore goes to risk , or CCPs love of one shard. I don't hate the one shard idea, its cool. But a lot of other games, have servers for different time zones making it more fair in a way for harvesters. Or they have respawning ore.

I would prefer more of a new mechanism off all the time zones that play this game, rather then a blanket respawn ore but who knows.

Yeah lots of buffs indeed. I always thought logistics would help mining out a lot, and with the huge cargo bays, it almost did that. But with most roids gone, if you don't log in early, more extreme logistics is needed to counter it or so.

Take me a while SP wise to be able to counter or build enough logistics, be fun when its built but will just take a long time.

Maybe different nodes could be restarted during different timezomes?

I wonder if cluster stability can be maintained that way or not?

This would undoubtedly have the effect of causing the asteroids in one system to respawn at one time, while those in a different system respawn at another.

It's the first thing that came to mind, but I do see beyond any doubt the problem of ease of access combined with a fixed system-wide single-TZ respawn.

Another alternative may be rebooting on a revolving schedule, so that every block of timezones gets their fair shake server-wide.

The way I most prefer, though, is introducing sufficient risk to allow all aspiring miners to attempt to gather the ore, where not all of them will succeed but a majority will. In that type of situation, the value of commodities will be high, increasing the value of the profession as well.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#45 - 2012-10-17 21:19:02 UTC
Devaluing Mining as a Profession

Yup!!! That looks really great for new players who think they want to be miners...Roll

I'd like to note these guys can't be touched by smartbombs, either, due to anchored containers.

Less risk. Easier to bot. Less engaging. Everything miners wanted but you claimed they didn't, Issler.

But what miners really want is not good for Eve. That might be tragic, I guess, but that tragedy does not make it untrue.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Kueyen
Angharradh's Aegis
#46 - 2012-10-18 14:43:31 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Issler, you are correct. Markets work, which is why Ice prices continue to plummet.
I've yet to see anyone complain about low ice prices (except perhaps those that would like to wage economic war through it). POS owners and jump-drive-capable-ship pilots rejoice.

Mezoforta wrote:
Of course your not going to hear miners complain about the changes because they are helping them right now but in the long run it will screw them because then everyone will have a million dollars. It would be like me complaining when someone gives me a million dollars it would be stupid to do when I first get it but then if everyone had a million dollars then I'm no longer special and my money doesn't look as cool anymore.
Mining is not an ISK faucet. Seems you are opposed to (ore) miners getting their fair share of the pie. Go rant against belt ratters or missioners instead – that's where the money is printed.

rodyas wrote:
That is kind of funny, CCP did design roids to only respawn for after downtime, which is a pita for me, since I can only log on at night, which means most roids will be gone, and will only respawn when its bed time. One of the main reasons I quit mining in the first place.
Darth Gustav wrote:
I am sorry this still happens today, and hope the upcoming changes will make it possible for miners to see ore in the belts again, instead of just empty space.
As an european, I've not often seen this phenomenon, but I do read about it regularly, and thus accept that our american and asia-pacific friends (possibly especially those in Caldari space) suffer from this. Some sort of rotating belt spawn rate could solve this, but I'd much rather see (most) ore be moved to grav sites that can respawn (elsewhere in the system/constellation/region) when depleted.

Until all are free...

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#47 - 2012-10-18 16:14:45 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Devaluing Mining as a Profession

Yup!!! That looks really great for new players who think they want to be miners...Roll

I'd like to note these guys can't be touched by smartbombs, either, due to anchored containers.

Less risk. Easier to bot. Less engaging. Everything miners wanted but you claimed they didn't, Issler.

But what miners really want is not good for Eve. That might be tragic, I guess, but that tragedy does not make it untrue.


Have you noticed you are pretty much the only person in this thread. There is no giant gathering of miners complaining about what you claim is bad for them. I expect you aren't a miner and just want to troll because you now find it harder to harass miners.

As to the REAL comment you made about belt depletion. CCP has discussed changing the spawning process from the "over down time" thing we have now to a dynamic spawn like grav sites since I was in CSM 2. I am hoping we see that as part of the larger mining changes that are in plan now.

Issler
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#48 - 2012-10-18 18:43:13 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Devaluing Mining as a Profession

Yup!!! That looks really great for new players who think they want to be miners...Roll

I'd like to note these guys can't be touched by smartbombs, either, due to anchored containers.

Less risk. Easier to bot. Less engaging. Everything miners wanted but you claimed they didn't, Issler.

But what miners really want is not good for Eve. That might be tragic, I guess, but that tragedy does not make it untrue.


Have you noticed you are pretty much the only person in this thread. There is no giant gathering of miners complaining about what you claim is bad for them. I expect you aren't a miner and just want to troll because you now find it harder to harass miners.

As to the REAL comment you made about belt depletion. CCP has discussed changing the spawning process from the "over down time" thing we have now to a dynamic spawn like grav sites since I was in CSM 2. I am hoping we see that as part of the larger mining changes that are in plan now.

Issler

Miners who haven't started playing Eve yet can't defend themselves here, Issler. You've got to do that. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-10-18 19:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sulindra
I find Darth Gustav's ranting hilariously sad.


I have only been in the game a couple years now. I have not experienced every aspect of eve, but I have experienced a lot. I have mined (and still do). I have lived in wormholes. I have stealthily passed gate camps in 0.0, and ratted (and even stealthily mined in lowsec). I have participated in wormhole take overs taking down towers and carriers in the process. Before I continue my comments on yours, it gives you an idea of where I've been.

I will agree with aspects of what you say. Yes the new changes to mining barges do nothing to prevent bots, and may even make the problem worse, but from what I have seen the changes were never about fixing "that" problem. The changes were specifically aimed to rebalance the ships against newly created T3 battlecruisers and the rebalancing of combat ships. Since they had entered the game it became increasingly easier for gankers to take down a mining ship in high security space before getting taken out themselves. ganker loses 200k ship and the miner looses a 200M+ ship. The changes to the mining ships force the gankers to use bigger ships with more dps meaning they suffer a bigger loss too. That is call rebalancing, and I for one thought it was great.

Mining's plateau. You're right in the sense that once you hit X things plateau off. Can you say that isn't the same with mission running? I mean I can sit in a dominix throw out 5 ogre IIs and just let them run through some of the toughest level 4 missions. Is that not just as much of a plateau as mining? Sure it took me a little while longer to get there, but that's just how eve is. Eventually every one plateaus. Alliance mate has 100M SP, tell me he hasn't plateaued?

Most of the people I know who mine. Not the bots I don't know any bots. People who I mine with or have mined with in the past LOVE the new changes to the barges an exhumers. They mine because they enjoy being the backbone of the economy, they love building ships and selling ships. The same ships that you and your friends use to blob out in null, or run mission in hs or gank ships passing through low sec.

If there were truly a problem with mining more people would be complaining about it.

Have you ever PVP mined? You probably don't think it exists. Finding that precious jaspet grav, getting to it first, having another miner find it after, then calling in your fleet to help you wipe out the belt, and them calling their fleet to try to get as much as possible. Calling in frigs to bump the other miners out of range. I have done it, when I was in a lowly retriever, and it was one of the funnest nights in my young eve life.

Would it be nice if mining were more "interesting" sure, but some nights, I just want to come on, and chat with corp mates and alliance mates and not fly around having to complete missions, which at times I find more boring than mining.

==== EDIT====
Something I just thought of. In your mindset you see getting into a Mack or a Hulk as a plateau. While it is, the miner is now free to explore other areas of being an industrialist. Getting into an Orca for his corp mates, doing invention on bpos. Mining is just a beginning to a greater cause in the industrialists life.
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-10-18 20:58:18 UTC
Sulindra wrote:
I will agree with aspects of what you say. Yes the new changes to mining barges do nothing to prevent bots, and may even make the problem worse, but from what I have seen the changes were never about fixing "that" problem. The changes were specifically aimed to rebalance the ships against newly created T3 battlecruisers and the rebalancing of combat ships. Since they had entered the game it became increasingly easier for gankers to take down a mining ship in high security space before getting taken out themselves. ganker loses 200k ship and the miner looses a 200M+ ship. The changes to the mining ships force the gankers to use bigger ships with more dps meaning they suffer a bigger loss too. That is call rebalancing, and I for one thought it was great.


Remind the class again where a gargantuan ore bay fits into any of this?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-10-19 01:16:37 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Sulindra wrote:
I will agree with aspects of what you say. Yes the new changes to mining barges do nothing to prevent bots, and may even make the problem worse, but from what I have seen the changes were never about fixing "that" problem. The changes were specifically aimed to rebalance the ships against newly created T3 battlecruisers and the rebalancing of combat ships. Since they had entered the game it became increasingly easier for gankers to take down a mining ship in high security space before getting taken out themselves. ganker loses 200k ship and the miner looses a 200M+ ship. The changes to the mining ships force the gankers to use bigger ships with more dps meaning they suffer a bigger loss too. That is call rebalancing, and I for one thought it was great.


Remind the class again where a gargantuan ore bay fits into any of this?


Sure I can do that. Prior to "Permageddon", the constant ganking of mining vessels that was sponsored by Goonswarm, miners were able to add mods to make their cargo capacity bigger Hulk got around 17K m3 if I remember correctly. In order to give the mining vessels similar part of the rebalance was to give them the ore bay freeing up rigs and slots for defensive rigs and mods.

And now you're going to complain that the bay is twice what it was, and that's where I say CCP gave the miners something nice, it's been a LONG time since CCP has paid attention to miners and mining so they did something for the miners. They give you T3 Battle cruisers, they give miners a little more capacity.

Stop whining, it's just more isk on the killboard when you do gank one.
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2012-10-19 03:38:22 UTC
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, just pointing out that the changes to barge had absolutely nothing to do with balance or "tiericide" or basically anything other than CCP's personal love letter to miners to keep them subscribing.

That said, I could go another way and point out that the ridiculous ore bays turn mining into a 100% solo exercise and straight up encourage paying as little attention as possible, even moreso than before. I could also point out that seeing CCP move away from making mining an actually interesting Thing To Do and instead perpetuating and encouraging the largely AFK boredom of the current system should be troubling to any miners that actually wanted their profession to become interesting. Of course, that'd require that kind of miner to actually exist in the first place.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#53 - 2012-10-19 09:37:32 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Sulindra wrote:
I will agree with aspects of what you say. Yes the new changes to mining barges do nothing to prevent bots, and may even make the problem worse, but from what I have seen the changes were never about fixing "that" problem. The changes were specifically aimed to rebalance the ships against newly created T3 battlecruisers and the rebalancing of combat ships. Since they had entered the game it became increasingly easier for gankers to take down a mining ship in high security space before getting taken out themselves. ganker loses 200k ship and the miner looses a 200M+ ship. The changes to the mining ships force the gankers to use bigger ships with more dps meaning they suffer a bigger loss too. That is call rebalancing, and I for one thought it was great.


Remind the class again where a gargantuan ore bay fits into any of this?


I was gonna say a logistical one. But I saw your later post, and you got issues dude. So many issues only a mackinaw can carry them safely to a psychiatric station.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-10-19 10:54:43 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, just pointing out that the changes to barge had absolutely nothing to do with balance or "tiericide" or basically anything other than CCP's personal love letter to miners to keep them subscribing.


Let's say what you are saying is true? How is that bad? If people (i'm talking the people who mine and not bots) come to the game and decide they want to mine as their profession. Let's say they are perfectly happy with it being an uninteresting task. If suddenly all these people leave the game because their ship is constantly alpha ganked. i have no problem with attacking AFK players. There are a few I'd like to gank myself sometimes but there are some players who do not mine afk. If they are alpha ganked they have little to no time to react. There's the "oh no" second that it takes them to realize they have to take action. They may be reading forums while mining or calculating industry profit or some other game related task, so they have to shut the browser or market window, align warp. By that time it is too late. They are dead because they were ganked in 1 shot.

Now this happens and they lose their 300M ship. They leave the game in droves. 10K players gone, maybe 15K players, if we say 15K that's $220,000 US at 10K it's $150,000. That's less money in their budget. $220K is enough for 3 mid level developer salaries, $150K is enough for 2 mid level developer salaries. That's just for subscriptions. Those same miners may also pay for PLEX that gets them isk for BPOs that cost 2-3B isk each. So now let's say we're talking annually half a million dollars. 5 Senior level developers. Suddenly CCP cut short rebalanacing of ships or even adding new content to the game because it has lost a big enough percentage of it's player base. If it's CCPs way of trying to keep that player base happy, then that's what they have to do. They are a business not a ponyshow. They are here to make money, and the way they do that is to keep their customers happy. A big enough portion of their player base was leaving. I know this cause industrial corps I interacted with had members leaving the game quickly, since the changes many of those players have returned. It's a business decision, and if you don't like it leave the game, you don't have to play eve.

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#55 - 2012-10-19 20:20:05 UTC
Sulindra wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, just pointing out that the changes to barge had absolutely nothing to do with balance or "tiericide" or basically anything other than CCP's personal love letter to miners to keep them subscribing.


Let's say what you are saying is true? How is that bad? If people (i'm talking the people who mine and not bots) come to the game and decide they want to mine as their profession. Let's say they are perfectly happy with it being an uninteresting task. If suddenly all these people leave the game because their ship is constantly alpha ganked. i have no problem with attacking AFK players. There are a few I'd like to gank myself sometimes but there are some players who do not mine afk. If they are alpha ganked they have little to no time to react. There's the "oh no" second that it takes them to realize they have to take action. They may be reading forums while mining or calculating industry profit or some other game related task, so they have to shut the browser or market window, align warp. By that time it is too late. They are dead because they were ganked in 1 shot.

Now this happens and they lose their 300M ship. They leave the game in droves. 10K players gone, maybe 15K players, if we say 15K that's $220,000 US at 10K it's $150,000. That's less money in their budget. $220K is enough for 3 mid level developer salaries, $150K is enough for 2 mid level developer salaries. That's just for subscriptions. Those same miners may also pay for PLEX that gets them isk for BPOs that cost 2-3B isk each. So now let's say we're talking annually half a million dollars. 5 Senior level developers. Suddenly CCP cut short rebalanacing of ships or even adding new content to the game because it has lost a big enough percentage of it's player base. If it's CCPs way of trying to keep that player base happy, then that's what they have to do. They are a business not a ponyshow. They are here to make money, and the way they do that is to keep their customers happy. A big enough portion of their player base was leaving. I know this cause industrial corps I interacted with had members leaving the game quickly, since the changes many of those players have returned. It's a business decision, and if you don't like it leave the game, you don't have to play eve.


What about the 15k miners who would have become miners in the future but prices were so low for the goods it was pointless? Do you think they should be forced to do something else, when what they wanted to do was mine?

Issler's right about this: The market works.

Do you count those subs who quit because mining is devalued to pointlessness as pros or cons?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-10-19 21:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Sulindra wrote:
Let's say what you are saying is true? How is that bad? .


A buff in and of itself isn't always a bad thing - it's the type of buffs that were given to barges and exhumers that were the problem.

Take a look at most of the hull buffs CCP Fozzie is doing right now for combat ships - what do they consist of? Extra grid/cpu, extra slots, maybe a realignment of bonuses if they were really bad. These are buffs that have many people very excited, by the way.

The mining ship buffs, on the other hand - not only did they get grid and slots and higher bonuses, they actually had their EHP buffed on the hull itself, AND were given new ore bays (to prevent them from fitting Cargo Expanders and reducing this buff). That's miles above and beyond what other hulls get when they get what are even considered to be big buffs, plus they have the wonderful upside of making sure that miners never have to even fit a tank at all, let alone learn what a good or bad tank even is.

The best part of these changes? They didn't even achieve what they set out to do. CCP claimed they were getting the same "tiericide" treatment as the other ship classes - that is, giving each hull a different role so that players can have a choice on what they want to do. The barge/exhumer changed accomplished none of this - it simply shifted the "go-to" hull from the Hulk to the Retriever/Mackinaw. It's far and away the best ship class for mining, since it not only has a stiff enough tank built-in to dissuade solo and for-profit gankers, but it also encourages AFK play. All this while other moneymaking professions are having changes put in to explicitly PREVENT AFK moneymaking.

tl;dr the changes prevent miners from having to learn how Eve works, and it encourages them to be even more AFK than they were. If you still need to know why that's a bad thing, I'm not sure what else to say.


Sulindra wrote:
Now this happens and they lose their 300M ship. They leave the game in droves. 10K players gone, maybe 15K players, if we say 15K that's $220,000 US at 10K it's $150,000.

...

It's a business decision, and if you don't like it leave the game, you don't have to play eve.


If CCP is going to start making wholesale philosophical changes because people don't like that they're losing ships, they might as well just save the bother and fold now. Eve without its largely unrestricted sandbox PVP is just a seventh-rate space MMO that would die within a year.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#57 - 2012-10-19 22:35:56 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Sulindra wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, just pointing out that the changes to barge had absolutely nothing to do with balance or "tiericide" or basically anything other than CCP's personal love letter to miners to keep them subscribing.


Let's say what you are saying is true? How is that bad? If people (i'm talking the people who mine and not bots) come to the game and decide they want to mine as their profession. Let's say they are perfectly happy with it being an uninteresting task. If suddenly all these people leave the game because their ship is constantly alpha ganked. i have no problem with attacking AFK players. There are a few I'd like to gank myself sometimes but there are some players who do not mine afk. If they are alpha ganked they have little to no time to react. There's the "oh no" second that it takes them to realize they have to take action. They may be reading forums while mining or calculating industry profit or some other game related task, so they have to shut the browser or market window, align warp. By that time it is too late. They are dead because they were ganked in 1 shot.

Now this happens and they lose their 300M ship. They leave the game in droves. 10K players gone, maybe 15K players, if we say 15K that's $220,000 US at 10K it's $150,000. That's less money in their budget. $220K is enough for 3 mid level developer salaries, $150K is enough for 2 mid level developer salaries. That's just for subscriptions. Those same miners may also pay for PLEX that gets them isk for BPOs that cost 2-3B isk each. So now let's say we're talking annually half a million dollars. 5 Senior level developers. Suddenly CCP cut short rebalanacing of ships or even adding new content to the game because it has lost a big enough percentage of it's player base. If it's CCPs way of trying to keep that player base happy, then that's what they have to do. They are a business not a ponyshow. They are here to make money, and the way they do that is to keep their customers happy. A big enough portion of their player base was leaving. I know this cause industrial corps I interacted with had members leaving the game quickly, since the changes many of those players have returned. It's a business decision, and if you don't like it leave the game, you don't have to play eve.


What about the 15k miners who would have become miners in the future but prices were so low for the goods it was pointless? Do you think they should be forced to do something else, when what they wanted to do was mine?

Issler's right about this: The market works.

Do you count those subs who quit because mining is devalued to pointlessness as pros or cons?


I have only encountered hi sec PI to be totally worthless, but mining full time as some of the mineral prices have been, have pretty much been useless as well.

I mostly see it as full time mining with like one or two accounts, could be worthless, but fun still part time or if you produce stuff.

But at the level of things not working well, you seem to focus on. Lots of other professions break down as well. Like BPO research, the material research is overly popular, and take up all the station slots, as well as some people already had time to research great BPOs so harder to get into and still make decent ISK. Also hi sec exploration is pretty much worse then hi sec mining and perhaps PI as well. Then the buffs to exploration frigs, is gonna make it worse, probably. You could even bring in moon mining, and how little moons, people can actually get. Also faction tags, are pretty hard to obtain and be worth it , unless perhaps you have a vargur or tengu and can breeze missions to recover rep. Salvaging sometimes, anyone is allowed to take your salvage, but if you trained for it, be kind of annoying or prices plummeting sometimes, or how certain races have better salvage.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#58 - 2012-10-20 03:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Snow Axe wrote:
The barge/exhumer changed accomplished none of this - it simply shifted the "go-to" hull from the Hulk to the Retriever/Mackinaw. It's far and away the best ship class for mining, since it not only has a stiff enough tank built-in to dissuade solo and for-profit gankers, but it also encourages AFK play. All this while other moneymaking professions are having changes put in to explicitly PREVENT AFK moneymaking.

tl;dr the changes prevent miners from having to learn how Eve works, and it encourages them to be even more AFK than they were. If you still need to know why that's a bad thing, I'm not sure what else to say.

You clearly haven't experienced the joy of mining while mostly AFK.

Miners are quite enthusiastic about it ... when they're at their keyboard to say so, anyway,.
Darth Gustav wrote:
What about the 15k miners who would have become miners in the future but prices were so low for the goods it was pointless? Do you think they should be forced to do something else, when what they wanted to do was mine?

Issler's right about this: The market works.

Do you count those subs who quit because mining is devalued to pointlessness as pros or cons?

There's tons of subs for multibox mining though. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP observed a rise in number of mining accounts and thought "awesome".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sulindra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-10-20 07:07:27 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

What about the 15k miners who would have become miners in the future but prices were so low for the goods it was pointless? Do you think they should be forced to do something else, when what they wanted to do was mine?

Issler's right about this: The market works.

Do you count those subs who quit because mining is devalued to pointlessness as pros or cons?


I'm still trying to figure how you think mining could be more interesting? I mean it's rock you break it down and bring it to be refined. What much more do you want from it?
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2012-10-20 15:23:45 UTC
Sulindra wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

What about the 15k miners who would have become miners in the future but prices were so low for the goods it was pointless? Do you think they should be forced to do something else, when what they wanted to do was mine?

Issler's right about this: The market works.

Do you count those subs who quit because mining is devalued to pointlessness as pros or cons?


I'm still trying to figure how you think mining could be more interesting? I mean it's rock you break it down and bring it to be refined. What much more do you want from it?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1350434#post1350434

Also Comets and Rings.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.