Ships & Modules

Unlike ECM nos/neut will still work and tackle will still work so no, it's not at all the same.

I understand they are not as powerful, its the fact that bonused ships arnt used because they are good on their own.

I drew the parallel between this and the old ecm multi thing, because what ccp said at the time about the nerf, was that its the very definition of a module thats too good when its used all the time and the bonuses ships are not.

My hope is that we do not have TD's on absolutely every ship with a spare mid come winter patch. because its going to suck.

They never nerfed autocannons when every punisher, moa, and maller used them instead of the weapons they were bonuses for.

Look, do not take a ccp statement like that as a set in stone truism. Yes, at the time multi-ecm mods were the go to filler. Now you see TDs more, but other mods are still used.

Besides, stop stressing about winter. The devs have already said that tds will not impact missiles in the first patch. And even.when they do, people will fit tracking computers. The advantage there (unlike with eccm mods) is that tracking computers provife benefit outside of just being disrupted.

So really, i think you are taking one statement made by ccp years ago, applying it out of context and trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Why nit wait, see what happens, then worry if you see tds on every kill.

When givin the choice between TDing and tank on a curse, tank wins most of the time. Who needs a TD when your opponent cant even fire his weapons, or move w/ prop?

And apart from the kitsune, when do you ever see an electronic attack frigate? Perhaps when the rebalance hits the t2 frigs, but otherwise they just are not used. Also, since the curse and pilgram are neut and td ships, the neut is usually favored.

I've always been a rather big believer in ALL EW type modules (ECM / Damper / TD / hell, even neuts and nos) being not very effective except for on bonused boats. Otherwise it opens up too many avenues for 'must have' items to follow up prop mods and points with. It bugs me that currently every single ship with the slot to spare runs with neuts as a must have, for example.

But I think I am probably in the minority with this opinion.

~Z

CCP said TDs would impact missiles after the Winter expansion? Oo Must have missed that. Was it in a dev blog or on forums, so that I can do a search?

Neut is only useful on smaller targets? The entire Amarr navy would like words with you. Neuts are good against all heavy cap using ships, and all active tanks specifically, forcing the need for cap batteries on many where they normally would not be required. In particular with ASB's and Capless weapons going around now, it makes it too hard a counter to all cap using ships if you have this combo.

There is no such thing as 'spare' mid slots. There is always need for more tank, prop, TCs, eccms, drone mods, sensor boosters, cap relays, maybe cap batteries, etc.

High slots. They call it 'utility' high slots for that reason. Tractor beams, salvager, drone mod, etc. If they made neuts less useful and kept nos where it is, I would be fine with that also. But currently neuts are simply too useful and therefore too needed on all non-bonused ships.

I am not saying to make them completely useless. But I do feel they are currently TOO effective. Especially on ships that don't have overly tight fittings to start. TD's I personally love and are a favorite, but I feel they should be brought down (someone gave a suggestion of not allowing scripting unless on a bonused ship, which I thought was an interesting idea, but not sure if it is the right fix) on non-bonused ships as well, especially if they decide to push through the proposed changes.

EW ships are not the most common thing in the field (ok, Curses granted are very popular), but they are feared when they show up. Every combat boat being a mini EW ship should not be, and they should do whatever they can to give more options, and not leave it so people feel forced to all have several must-have items.


Again, I am aware that I am probably in the minority here, but the forums are here for specifically this reason, the exchange of views. ;)

~Z

Neut are indeed very powerful, but it's in relation to their fiting cost IMO. Most ship just cannot fit a neut, and those who can often have to make sacrifice in order to do it, except for some minmatar hulls. It's the minmatar hull who need to be fixed, not the module itself IMO. Most of the time, you are neuting yourself if you are not using a capless ship. Problem IMO is capless weapons and ship, not neuts.

Other EWAR, there is two cases : TD and damp on one side, and ECM on the other.

TD and Damp need speed superiority and can be countered by piloting. Because of the required speed, you can't really use them on armour ships, and because of mid slots, you can barely use them on shield ships. Most fit I see using TD are almost or completely tankless.

There is also the fleet case, but I don't see any problem with EWAR in fleet.

And ECM now, when was the last time you saw an ECM module on a non bonused hull ?

And there is counters to all of them.

And a funny thing too : most mid slots you mentioned except tank are counter EWAR modules.

I have very mixed feelings about TD. On one hand I'm with you seeing TD on ALL the ships. It's obnoxious. On the other hand - there are consistent counters. Get a destroyer. Slap a sensor booster on it. Fit rails or artillery. You can kill fragile, kitey e-war frigates before they can lock you to apply their e-war.

After December 4th, new missile destroyers will sweep alot of the condors and slashers with TD's you see zooming about off of the field. The beam coercer also becomes a reality.

The real victim of TD-Online is brawler frigates. A pulse coercer or punisher that has it's optimal halved by a TD becomes worthless.

Part of me wishes they'd change the overall tracking formula. Right now transversal is emphasized over signature size. Flipping that would create some interesting scenarios.