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The difference between PVP/PVE fits

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Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#1 - 2012-10-18 15:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?
If you want to do missions in low sec... You're pretty ****** since if you meet another ship it won't end well.
Why not make it so that PVP and PVE fits wont be too different?
This little step will help push mission runners into low sec, which means more targets for all you players who like to PVP, but still give the mission runners a fighting chanse.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2 - 2012-10-18 16:00:54 UTC
I believe CCP are making changes to close the gap between PvP and PvE fittings. I'm not sure what changes they are planning exactly.

Oh god.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2012-10-18 16:07:34 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
Why is there a difference?
Because ye olde rats don't work like people: people try to kill you in the shortest time possible; rats are designed to give you a chance to survive. They are therefore set up to do a lot of damage over time and to take a hell of a beating (or come in vast numbers) to ensure that “over time” is longer than a proper fight would actually be.

Difficulty in PvE is created in one of two ways: adding more (weak) ships and adding things that messes with your tank (neut towers, webbing frigates and stasis towers).

The new AI fixes some of this by adding a couple of tools to the tool box: one is stronger rats, another is combinations of abilities and the pseudo-intelligent application thereof. It's still largely a damage-over-time affair though.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#4 - 2012-10-18 16:08:34 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I believe CCP are making changes to close the gap between PvP and PvE fittings. I'm not sure what changes they are planning exactly.

Well that's good, tho I would still like to know how they will do it.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#5 - 2012-10-18 16:12:17 UTC
Smart player uses local.

It's super effective!
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#6 - 2012-10-18 16:13:21 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Smart player uses local.

It's super effective!

Not really, have fun leaving the mission every 5 seconds because some guy decided to pass through and you have no idea if he's friendly or hostile >_>

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-10-18 16:16:05 UTC
But still the OP has a very valid point.

For starters it would be very nice if all npcs did omni-damage, so players would actually need to fit a tank that would be at least somewhat useful in pvp.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#8 - 2012-10-18 16:21:42 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?
If you want to do missions in low/null sec... You're pretty ****** since if you meet another ship it won't end well.
Why not make it so that PVP and PVE fits wont be too different?
This little step will help push mission runners into low/null sec, which means more targets for all you players who like to PVP, but still give the mission runners a fighting chanse.

Cat Troll wrote:

If you want to do missions in low/null sec...

That explains a lot. You clearly havent lived in null before, have you?
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#9 - 2012-10-18 16:24:15 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?
If you want to do missions in low/null sec... You're pretty ****** since if you meet another ship it won't end well.
Why not make it so that PVP and PVE fits wont be too different?
This little step will help push mission runners into low/null sec, which means more targets for all you players who like to PVP, but still give the mission runners a fighting chanse.

Cat Troll wrote:

If you want to do missions in low/null sec...

That explains a lot. You clearly havent lived in null before, have you?

I have no idea why I typed null.
I guess I just relate low and null as the same in my mind.
But I know there are no missions there and thanks for pointing this error out.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-10-18 16:26:13 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?

Because:

  • PvE takes much longer than a minute or so, which is the typical duration of a PvP skirmish.

    • PvE fits are supposed to function for extended periods of time and provide the survivability and damage to kill large numbers of weak enemies. This means active tanks, consistent damage, cap stability, and often little emphasis on mobility.
    • PvP fits are supposed to function in a "burst" of action, in which the amount your own ship is depleted is irrelevant so long as the enemy dies. This means buffer tanks (or hyper-active tanks/ASB), maximized DPS/alpha, cap instability, lots of speed variability, electronic warfare, etc.

  • PvP targets need to be prevented from escaping (points, etc).
  • Electronic warfare is effective in PvP, but not in PvE (due to larger numbers).
  • PvE is seldom done in brawling fits.


CCP wants to bring PvE closer to PvP, but it's a long, arduous process.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-10-18 16:36:52 UTC
I believe, though please do not quote me on this, that the upcoming AI changes are a step along this path. I'll see what I can dig up for you Big smile

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-10-18 16:37:56 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
I believe, though please do not quote me on this, that the upcoming AI changes are a step along this path. I'll see what I can dig up for you Big smile

It is, in order to eliminate silly one-person tanking, and to make ships fight other ships of equal sizes (which is closer to how things work in PvP).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-10-18 16:39:37 UTC
ISD TYPE40 wrote:
I'll see what I can dig up for you Big smile
Any form of shiny treasure would be acceptable

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#14 - 2012-10-18 16:43:48 UTC
There was some CCP commentary (during fanfest I think) that they were looking in to making PVE ships more powerful, but fewer, to be inline more with PVP to try and close the gap . So instead of 40 ships in a pocket you might only get 4. The AI change was mentioned as a first step of it as I recall.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Ajit Kumar Bhattacharya
DEEP-13
#15 - 2012-10-18 17:05:25 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?
If you want to do missions in low/null sec... You're pretty ****** since if you meet another ship it won't end well.
Why not make it so that PVP and PVE fits wont be too different?
This little step will help push mission runners into low/null sec, which means more targets for all you players who like to PVP, but still give the mission runners a fighting chanse.

Cat Troll wrote:

If you want to do missions in low/null sec...

That explains a lot. You clearly havent lived in null before, have you?

I have no idea why I typed null.
I guess I just relate low and null as the same in my mind.
But I know there are no missions there and thanks for pointing this error out.


Now I'm confused - I got an Alt in null at a pirate station doing noob level I missions once in a while. There are agents in that station. I've done missions for 'em.

“How Earth-like? 'Temperate and able to sustain life' Earth-like or 'completely overrun with self-absorbed assholes' Earth-like?”
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#16 - 2012-10-18 17:17:08 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
The difference between PVP/PVE fits....
Why is there a difference?
If you want to do missions in low sec... You're pretty ****** since if you meet another ship it won't end well.
Why not make it so that PVP and PVE fits wont be too different?
This little step will help push mission runners into low sec, which means more targets for all you players who like to PVP, but still give the mission runners a fighting chanse.


PVE: tank a medium amount of damage for a long amount of time
PVP: Tank a LARGE amount of damage for a short amount of time

The difference is time. This is why a drake with passive regen fit does great at PVE but sucks at PVP.

You want to run low sec plexes, use a pvp fit group with logistics ships.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#17 - 2012-10-18 17:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Cat Troll wrote:
Not really, have fun leaving the mission every 5 seconds because some guy decided to pass through and you have no idea if he's friendly or hostile >_>

You don't have to leave every 5 seconds. Mission sites make good safe spots as the are in generated in random locations. Just keep your D-Scan up and check for combat probes. If someone comes into local, align to your safe spot and switch off your MWD. You don't have to warp away just because someone entered the same system as you, only warp away if they appear on grid. Use a cloak to prevent them from scanning you down on your safe spot.

Oh god.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-10-18 18:02:29 UTC
It is to encourage cooperation. Solo, you have a choice to either kill rats fast, or defend yourself against an attacker. Get a few people together and you can do both.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#19 - 2012-10-18 18:05:17 UTC
PVP fits have resilience that reduces a player's incoming dps, but not a npc's incoming dps.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-10-18 18:17:07 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I believe CCP are making changes to close the gap between PvP and PvE fittings. I'm not sure what changes they are planning exactly.

percentage based shield/armor boosters probably? idk.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
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