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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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break the blobs, the local, the safe 00 and begin the fun!!

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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-10-18 14:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
"Limit X per alliance" ideas never work.

The oldest alliances were founded a long time before CCP even implemented "alliance" functionality in EVE, and alliances will continue to exist and function no matter how CCP would decide to restrict the in-game alliance system.

The cost of a few alt alliances won't discourage any alliance from holding as much space as they want to.

.
Reuqh Dew
Anasta.
#22 - 2012-10-18 14:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reuqh Dew
+1 for no local!

edit: Let the bears cry
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#23 - 2012-10-18 15:26:41 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
[quote=Ptraci]

Actually, engagements happen MORE if the information is harder to get. Local makes people mostly avoid combat.


I don't see how that can happen, except for the odd noob FC who scouts with his fleet instead of, well, a scout.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#24 - 2012-10-18 15:46:11 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

Posting in an NPC alt thread who has no idea about how 0.0 actually works.

When's the next song coming out? Please make more.



I wont write more songs/Haikus feel like summer breeze/Much better for EVE

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#25 - 2012-10-18 16:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
TOxik FuEL wrote:
So the Ideas:

1- No more local everywhere in the game ... if you want to know you go to take a look!!!!!



Yeah, and suddenly you have to scan scan scan to do anything in EVE. And scanning is so much fun. And of course by the time you've scanned, the person/fleet has moved, so you have to scan again. Making it even harder for actual fleet engagements to happen.

How about no. If you're butt-hurt because you get jumped every time you try to do something in low/null, go back to your wormhole. And stay there.



Actually, engagements happen MORE if the information is harder to get. Local makes people mostly avoid combat.

Errm, not really, no.


Errm, really, yes.

Fast and accurate intel leads to a better estimate of the opposing force. And because forces are rarely evenly matched, this simply results in one side rather running away more often then risking a fight.

That's why so many of the bigger fights in EVE revolve around hot-dropping, because the intel the game provides in many ways is too good, leaving only bait&pound tactics (often escalating further) and pitched battles over strategic assets as the main source of players actually engaging each other. Spontaneous fights are rare because you almost always know what you're up against.

Perfect local also results in less targets (meaning even less engagements) because instant detection makes something like W-space day-tripping or wolf-pack roaming much less appealing.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Johnny Bloomington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-10-18 16:05:16 UTC
Delayed local in WH and null only is my vote. Low and high stays the same as now.

CCP wish list: show damage on ships and open that door!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#27 - 2012-10-18 16:09:29 UTC
TOxik FuEL wrote:
So the Ideas:

1- No more local everywhere in the game (HS , LS, 00) so now we can have a new role and real intel function, more realistic war strategy... you said reward vs risk, sorry but when you're in 00, all the neightboorhood is blue or in the same alliance, you a lot of the time really safe.

2- No more blob and blue region in 00, everyone (ok I exagerate) is blue to each other. So now a corp max 250 players, An alliance max 2-3 corp. No more good standing to each other, If you're in the alliance you're seeing your mate (corp or alliance) with a specific tag. and everything else is tagged as a potentiel enemy (no more neutral standing...)

3- Limiting the number of Sov and outpost per alliance, made a really HQ!


4- No more info on the player's corp/alliance when you click on the character or in the overview. So what you see is : character name and ship other info are private... we have access to too many info about everyone in this game (and the website) so we don't have a lot of suprise....

5- No more public Sov info, you want to see who is in the system go ahead.


You're telling us that the decision we make , will change the path of the character etc... with this modification we will have a big change, we will have to make right decision, no just look at evedotlan to know where there are npc kill, or camp gate or whatever, if you want to know you go to take a look!!!!!

You want to see a dynamic game change the actual system!


1: People need a way to see each other and find each other, including 2 day old players. This is an MMO, we do not want to make the game look like a single player game to new players as that encourages single player play styles. Local would have to be replaced by some sort of automatic long range scanning system.

2: Will not work because the alliance leaders will just publish lists of people who are friends. Every time I see someone I would have to look them up on the list before I shoot or hold fire. If I did not follow this procedure, I get kicked. Looking people up on lists is a task for computers, not something we should be forced to do manually in a game.

3: An alliance leader would just use alts to make multiple alliances. The power bloc would still be under one person. Limiting outposts is counter to a main problem in Null: insufficient manufacturing. You cannot make even all the ammo you need out there, let alone all the ships.

4: Then how do you figure out who to war dec? Besides, via war decs you can figure out who is in what corps. (Dec a corp, see who shows up red flashy) then publish the list, EVEWHO style.

5: Again, someone would make an out of game list that you would have to consult.

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Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#28 - 2012-10-18 16:19:10 UTC
I dont understand the issue about not removing local. Just improve dscan range and enable it to tell you if a ship that gets into your dscan is either neut, red, blue and gives you its size (frig, cruiser, BS...), and the problem is solved.

If some dont like spamming dscan to get info on nearby ships, CCP only need to introduce a feature that automaticly alert you when an hostile ship gets inside your dscan range and is in warp thoward the grid you are currently at.
Yahrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-18 16:30:59 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Just improve dscan range and enable it to tell you if a ship that gets into your dscan is either neut, red, blue and gives you its size (frig, cruiser, BS...), and the problem is solved.

You mean we go from easy mode to even easier mode? Free intel == bad. You should work for your intel - or have someone do the work for you.

Dragon Outlaw wrote:
If some dont like spamming dscan to get info on nearby ships, CCP only need to introduce a feature that automaticly alert you when an hostile ship gets inside your dscan range and is in warp thoward the grid you are currently at.

You know what? You're right. Let's create a system where you can just AFK in space and your ship automatically warps to a new, random safe whenever a non-blue is in warp to your current grid. That way we can also get rid of the whole probing and dscanning mechanic, which means less developer time invested in the pvp aspect of the game so there will be loads free for pve. Finally! Risk free bearing for everyone! Roll
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-10-18 16:33:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
1: People need a way to see each other and find each other, including 2 day old players. This is an MMO, we do not want to make the game look like a single player game to new players as that encourages single player play styles. Local would have to be replaced by some sort of automatic long range scanning system.

This is such a weak argument to keep local. There is a vast amount of channels players are able to join when starting the game and even long into their career as a capsuleer. Finding other players is not an issue at all if you just put forth even the slightest bit of effort. What needs to be eliminated is the ease at which players can find each other now. As it is you can't take a crap without everyone in the galaxy knowing how much and what color withing one minute. Local needs to be taken out to the field and be beaten to death. Bad.
Vincent Athena wrote:
2: Will not work because the alliance leaders will just publish lists of people who are friends. Every time I see someone I would have to look them up on the list before I shoot or hold fire. If I did not follow this procedure, I get kicked. Looking people up on lists is a task for computers, not something we should be forced to do manually in a game.

Sounds like you have too many blues then.
Vincent Athena wrote:
3: An alliance leader would just use alts to make multiple alliances. The power bloc would still be under one person. Limiting outposts is counter to a main problem in Null: insufficient manufacturing. You cannot make even all the ammo you need out there, let alone all the ships.

I agree. There should not be hard caps on what you control. What needs to happen is the removal of structure mails. If an alliance actually lives in and uses (yes things like manufacturing slots and such need serious love) these things, they will know if they are under attack and such. So a structure mail mechanic is not necessary. If they decide to setup or take structures in space they do not live in or use, these things will be taken away from them, thus the alliance creates its own limitation on things it controls based on how it operates.
Vincent Athena wrote:
4: Then how do you figure out who to war dec? Besides, via war decs you can figure out who is in what corps. (Dec a corp, see who shows up red flashy) then publish the list, EVEWHO style.

Yeah I don't think that kind of information removal is necessary. I think all standings being made public would spice things up a bit.
Vincent Athena wrote:
5: Again, someone would make an out of game list that you would have to consult.

People will always use out of game lists and tools to aid them in game. If they come across another player and they have to spend a couple minutes trying to find out if they should shoot them or not and it turns out they are a hostile, I have no problem with that. It is a major PITA for entities have major NAP trains and would give an advantage to the smaller entities who are not being blobbed. Also remove alliance and corp tickers off the overview. P
Tsuya
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2012-10-18 16:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsuya
Why not just remove +5/+10 standings? If you want to be allies with someone, put your corp into their alliance ffs.

I quite liked the idea someone put forth awhile ago where characters do not appear in local until their gate cloak wears off; it wouldn't have applied to cloaking modules. In this way, solo roamers and small gang scouts can identify ratters in specific anomalies stealthily, while still giving attentive anomaly runners time to warp out once the hostiles moved or initiated their warp.
CCP Falcon
#32 - 2012-10-18 16:43:16 UTC
Moved to features and ideas discussion.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#33 - 2012-10-18 16:44:39 UTC
Yahrr wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Just improve dscan range and enable it to tell you if a ship that gets into your dscan is either neut, red, blue and gives you its size (frig, cruiser, BS...), and the problem is solved.

You mean we go from easy mode to even easier mode? Free intel == bad. You should work for your intel - or have someone do the work for you.

Dragon Outlaw wrote:
If some dont like spamming dscan to get info on nearby ships, CCP only need to introduce a feature that automaticly alert you when an hostile ship gets inside your dscan range and is in warp thoward the grid you are currently at.

You know what? You're right. Let's create a system where you can just AFK in space and your ship automatically warps to a new, random safe whenever a non-blue is in warp to your current grid. That way we can also get rid of the whole probing and dscanning mechanic, which means less developer time invested in the pvp aspect of the game so there will be loads free for pve. Finally! Risk free bearing for everyone! Roll


How about, even if the ship warps off...you could dscan him, warp after him, take him out of warp (or land on the same grid he is landing), point him, kill is ship and ask him for a ransom before killing is pod.

No more probing!! A ship is on your dscan, you can warp to him. BANG!

I dont want to dumb down the game to help PvE, I want the game to be more realistic and more dynamic. Specially for PvP.
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#34 - 2012-10-18 16:54:30 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Even a Delay till you smack talk in local ^^


+1
But in that low and.hugh still.should have.local.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#35 - 2012-10-18 17:38:33 UTC
Best solution to Local that I've seen. And it doesn't involve nerfing anything, in fact local would be hugely boosted in its intended function of a social chat channel!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#36 - 2012-10-18 17:41:52 UTC
Here is an idea for realistic intel gathering to consider.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread

A D-Scan that auto cycles at a user set rate, (I believe devs will allow this, since they CAN manually do it already), to remove the mindless burden of clicking a button repeatedly.

A means to use skills and equipment to detect the presence of cloaked vessels, if the effort is made and they have the capability as opposed by the skills of the cloaking pilot. (This is explained in the OP)

It leaves local as an option for chatting.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Tsuya
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-10-18 17:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsuya
Nikk Narrel wrote:

A D-Scan that auto cycles at a user set rate


Automating the most simple action in EVE?

Lets also make it so that when you create a brand new character, you click a button and all of your skill training, movement, combat, and PVE are controlled by an automated function. That way, it doesn't matter if you're AFK, you don't have to use an illegal bot and risk banhammer, you don't have to watch local for hostiles, you don't have to click Dscan to keep yourself from dying like a ******, and you can keep isk pouring into your wallet. All via EVE gate, so you never have to log in.

We could go on and on with that line of thinking, but automating things like that as a feature is usually a bad idea in a multiplayer video game that, for the most part, requires you to be at keyboard anyway.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#38 - 2012-10-18 17:59:57 UTC
Tsuya wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

A D-Scan that auto cycles at a user set rate


Automating the most simple action in EVE?

Lets also make it so that when you create a brand new character, you click a button and all of your skill training, movement, combat, and PVE are controlled by an automated function. That way, it doesn't matter if you're AFK, you don't have to use an illegal bot and risk banhammer, you don't have to watch local for hostiles, you don't have to click Dscan to keep yourself from dying like a ******, and you can keep isk pouring into your wallet. All via EVE gate, so you never have to log in.

We could go on and on with that line of thinking, but automating things like that as a feature is usually a bad idea in a multiplayer video game that, for the most part, requires you to be at keyboard anyway.

You are funny.

How about we flip it over, and you need to hit a button every time you want local to refresh and show you all the pilots listed?

Ahhh, that's different, isn't it? So you may accept that intel you rely upon should not be a tedious effort.

It is automated in a limited way, but you wouldn't know the details if you never read the link.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#39 - 2012-10-18 19:46:03 UTC
I agree with all of proposals except those two:

TOxik FuEL wrote:
So the Ideas:
...

2- No more blob and blue region in 00, everyone (ok I exagerate) is blue to each other. So now a corp max 250 players, An alliance max 2-3 corp. No more good standing to each other, If you're in the alliance you're seeing your mate (corp or alliance) with a specific tag. and everything else is tagged as a potentiel enemy (no more neutral standing...)

3- Limiting the number of Sov and outpost per alliance, made a really HQ!
...


This won’t help remove blob or big coalitions. If you limit size of alliances and corporations all you will do is make those relation informal, but still present and forming blobs.

Main reason for blobs is excessive ease and speed of travel in 0.0. I think CCP Grayscale was on right path when once he mentioned blobbing could be reduced by cutting warp speed greatly and thus making long distance travel harder. He is right in that problem is speed of travel but he is wrong if he thinks cutting warp speed would help much. Actual problem is cyno bridging for capitals, Titian bridging and jump bridging for sub-capitals. We hardly ever see blob in high sec. Why is that? Simply because non of the above methods of travel work there.

So to deal with problem of blobbing I would suggest 3 things:

-that jump bridges be usable only by industrial ships, blockade runners, freighters and jump freighters

-that titan bridges also be limited to industrial ships, blockade runners, freighters and jump freighters

- that cyno bridging get mass limit as I described in this link


Also there should be effort to make coordinating large blob of people harder. I think things like broadcasts, fleet warps and so on should be removed from the game. Execution of focusing fire, remote reps and other fleet movements should depend more on experience and fleet/com discipline of of players then just locking/right clicking broadcast.

On top of it we CCP should introduce more modules that discourage blobs form focusing fire. For example I really like this proposal.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-10-18 19:50:20 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Moved to features and ideas discussion.

Where all threads go to die.
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