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Less attractive to play everyday.

Author
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#21 - 2012-10-18 09:23:45 UTC


Can I have your stuff OP?

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Jim Hazard
Fury Industry
#22 - 2012-10-18 09:40:59 UTC
The thing with blobs is that you can not really do anything about them. Its the players way of thinking that makes people blob and the fact that the game keeps growing.

If you get more people out in 0.0 its just natural that the fleet size will also grow. No FC will tell people to stay home, just because they do not want to have too many people in their gangs, because that will slowly just discourage people to even try joining fleets and the activity in your corporation / alliance would greatly suffer from that.

The only way to prevent blobs would be to set an artificial cap for the number of people being in a system, but as anyone with just 2 braincells should be able to understand, this would be a very bad idea as well.

That does not mean that small gang PvP is dead though, it is just harder to find and you have to choose your ships better in order to be able to dodge the blobs and hotdrops.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#23 - 2012-10-18 11:57:44 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Chribba wrote:
So... bra straps will make you play?


I'd rather have a bra fetish than a Veldspar one, just saying :)


But would you tattoo a bra on your arm?
Obax Bannon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-10-18 12:00:40 UTC
Chribba wrote:
So... bra straps will make you play?


Well maybe...but not with EveShocked
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-18 13:29:22 UTC
The OP knows that complaining about 'blob warfare' is the stupidest thing you acn possibly say rite?

It is not up to CCP to balance the game in your favor because you have less friends

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#26 - 2012-10-18 13:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Because being paid for killing people isn't a buff to solo PvP. (That's sarcasm, for those of you without brains).

Silly changes to aggression mechanics? So stopping logi station games is silly is it? The game is not getting dumbed down, its just being better presented by the UI, nothing is getting less complex.

Jim Hazard wrote:
The thing with blobs is that you can not really do anything about them. Its the players way of thinking that makes people blob and the fact that the game keeps growing.


Try finding out what they're flying and counter it. Drake blob of 500? Take 10 Insta-nadoes and blow them up from 150km, alternatively firewall them. Blob of brawlers? Pull them off gate one at a time, add a couple of snipers and your sorted. Frigate blob? Smartbombs anyone? I saw 10 guys in brawler Nados lose two guys to a SBer before he got away. Maelstrom blob? Bring a super. Hell!, bring a couple.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#27 - 2012-10-18 14:50:42 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
The OP knows that complaining about 'blob warfare' is the stupidest thing you acn possibly say rite?

It is not up to CCP to balance the game in your favor because you have less friends


Do you really think that the people who object to much of the game's combat being blob-based are all annoyed because they can't get enough friends to compete? News flash: some of us just don't like blob warfare as a playstyle. We like fights where pilot skill actually matters, where you're not just a tiny cog in a large machine, where you don't have to wait ages for your fleet to coordinate. We like a more personal, intense experience in PvP that is not offered by blob warfare.

In my time in EVE, I've done all sorts of PvP from nullsec warfare (fighting in Deklein as part of Northern Stars Alliance at the tail end of the Great Northern War back in 2004, Fountain Alliance when BoB invaded, Forsaken Empire up north, Veritas Immortalis out east, too many others to list) to piracy (BioMass Cartel, Black Rabbits, random juicy targets in lowsec when not actively playing pirate) to highsec wars (Star Fraction, Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams, just about every other corp I've ever been with) to wormholes (most of my more recent corps) to random lowsec PvP (most of my older corps back before solo and small gang PvP fell by the wayside). After all is said and done, I've found that I much prefer small gang and solo PvP (that's "small gang" as in 3-5 people, not today's "small gang" of 10-30) and have come to despise being forced into blob warfare.

Sadly, due to mechanics changes that require more roles to be filled in any fleet that wants to be competitive (see: logistics), a massive increase in player population without a commensurate increase in the number of systems in EVE, and a change in player mindset brought on by the first two, small gang and solo combat has simply been thrown under the bus, making the game far less attractive to people like me.

So no, your "you're just mad because you have no friends" statement is just a bunch of bull. I could step into any one of a dozen large corps/alliances run by old friends if I was interested in a blobbing experience; however, I'm not. IMO, blob warfare is often the preference of those whose skills don't measure up on an individual level. You may prefer quantity over quality, my friend, but I'll have none of it.


Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2012-10-18 15:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Personally I think that blobs are fine, as long as you are facing a similar blob, but I also feel that there should be limitations placed on them to simulate the difficulties any large fighting force has that are not accurately reflected by the game mechanics.... as currently things don't scale very realistically.

Historically large forces have always had certain advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage:
They put out a large volume of firepower.
They can absorb a large number of casualties before brecoming ineffective.
You can engage multiple targets simultaneously.
You can cover/control a larger area more easily.
Defensive tactics generally become more effective.

Disadvantage:
Slow and cumbersome to move.
Impossible to hide, and lose the element of surprise.
They are a very large target.
Logistical considerations get expotentially more difficult.
Friendly fire becomes a more significant issue.
Bringing all available firepower to bear effectively becomes more difficult.
Offensive tactics generally become more difficult to execute.

Some of these things can be simulated in the game engine, others can not, and a few CAN be simulated but either should not or should be approached with extreme care.

Most of the advantages listed are accurately reflected in our current game mechanics. The problem is that many of the disadvantages are not.

I'm not advocating any of these things, but some things to consider that would subtly disenfranchise the blob as always being the most effective tactic to use would be to consider implimenting mechanics like:

The larger the fleet the bigger the penalty to individual ship speed and agility (alignment times would be affected), as well as their speed in warp.

The larger the fleet the easier and quicker it is to scan out, and is detectable at longer ranges.

Locking times could be penalized slightly as the fleets get larger to simulate the extra time necessary for all of those ships to get and react to targeting priority information in a coordinated fashion.

These are only a very quick and shallow selection of idea's that should be considered. Nothing dramatic should be considered to discourage the blob, but instead a variety of small (logical) disadvantages could encourage other tactics to be used when the blob simply becomes to unwieldy to handle a particular situation well.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Imports Plus
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-10-18 16:03:15 UTC
Zyxtyr wrote:
No changes to blob warfare, little room for solo or small gang PvP, silly changes to aggression mechanics, dumbing down the entire game so numpties can figure stuff out ..... and now with this latest patch a new fix.......

"An issue with the Caldari Achura females bra straps always being visible has now been fixed"

Why? What was wrong with the bra strap? All the Caldari Achura women I have met in real life have their bra strap visible....the brand was Accubra. Bring the bra strap back!!

Bring back the EVE Online we used to love!


+1 for bra straps. Look at my straps guys!

EVE needs to bring sexy back.
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#30 - 2012-10-18 16:22:01 UTC
This could easily be a post relevant in any of the last 5 or 6 years of EVE.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#31 - 2012-10-18 16:26:22 UTC
dethleffs wrote:
As someone on this forum would say..


wat


or.. wat, wat?
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#32 - 2012-10-18 16:27:38 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
Zyxtyr wrote:
No changes to blob warfare, little room for solo or small gang PvP, silly changes to aggression mechanics, dumbing down the entire game so numpties can figure stuff out ..... and now with this latest patch a new fix.......

"An issue with the Caldari Achura females bra straps always being visible has now been fixed"

Why? What was wrong with the bra strap? All the Caldari Achura women I have met in real life have their bra strap visible....the brand was Accubra. Bring the bra strap back!!

Bring back the EVE Online we used to love!


+1 for bra straps. Look at my straps guys!

EVE needs to bring sexy back.


That must be a tech II strap for sure!! Or faction?
Wolf Kruol
Suicide Squad Gamma
#33 - 2012-10-18 20:25:43 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Zyxtyr wrote:
No changes to blob warfare, little room for solo or small gang PvP, silly changes to aggression mechanics, dumbing down the entire game so numpties can figure stuff out ..... and now with this latest patch a new fix.......

"An issue with the Caldari Achura females bra straps always being visible has now been fixed"

Why? What was wrong with the bra strap? All the Caldari Achura women I have met in real life have their bra strap visible....the brand was Accubra. Bring the bra strap back!!

Bring back the EVE Online we used to love!


what you want is that way >>>>>>>>>>> play dress up bye now, hope you like your new game.


They should remove bra's period! Where I live women can bare there breasts like guys bare there chest. Freedom guys and gals.. Freedom.. Blink

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#34 - 2012-10-18 22:31:27 UTC
Wrayeth wrote:
Zyxtyr wrote:
No changes to blob warfare, little room for solo or small gang PvP



TBH, I agree with this for the most part. I especially agree with the bolded part.

I've been largely inactive for a long time, but after watching the last Alliance Tournament I tried to get myself back into EVE. Unfortunately, I just couldn't gather the enthusiasm I needed. Knowing that pilot skill counts for very little these days, a "small" gang is considered 10-30 people, that the "I-win" button of MWD-ending warp scrambler is still around, and that webs still max at 60% really makes it hard to want to become active again.

I could add quite a few more things to the above list such as logistics being a requirement in just about any fight, but it'll do for starters. The simple fact is that the game isn't anywhere near as enjoyable as it once was. I used to continually post suggestions that, IMO, would improve the game and help make it as enjoyable as it once was, but I eventually got tired of tilting at windmills to no effect. After I finally realized the futility of my efforts, I largely gave up trying to get things to change aside from a post or two every few months.

It seems to me that the devs' chosen direction for the game is diametrically opposed to what I want to see, and I'm just one tiny voice trying to be heard over the cacophony of their plans for EVE. Moreover, very few of the players still active today ever got to experience EVE the way it was back in the day, so their only conception of the game is its currently-blobby state. As a result, they also naturally object to anything that might return EVE to the sandbox it once was since many of them enjoy the game as it is now.

Oh, well. Change is one of the constants in life, and no one ever promised it would be for the better.



If my heart could write posts they would look like this. <3
Creedling
#35 - 2012-10-18 22:43:25 UTC
Stop letting the game play you and play the game.
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
#36 - 2012-10-18 23:29:03 UTC
You mad at bra straps, bro?
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#37 - 2012-10-18 23:41:30 UTC
Obax Bannon wrote:
Chribba wrote:
So... bra straps will make you play?


Well maybe...but not with EveShocked


Someone needs to ask.

Why you no lika da bewbies?????

R.I.P. Vile Rat

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-10-19 00:13:26 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, when was Eve - 'the real Eve', and when and what single thing marked the start of the 'decline'?


I'm going to go with "Never". There has always been one side complaining about blobs and whining that their small gang of 14 dudes simply cannot beat a corp of 38 dudes.

Small gang is alive and well. It just doesn't MATTER in the strategic sense. And frankly that's fine. Eve isn't star wars, a small group of plucky rebels isn't going to destroy a star spanning empire. Get over it.
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#39 - 2012-10-19 02:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Wrayeth
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, when was Eve - 'the real Eve', and when and what single thing marked the start of the 'decline'?


It wasn't any single thing, but rather a series of things that keep piling on top of one another.

TBH, I'd have to say the first thing was the full-spectrum hitpoint increase for all ships back in...2006? Basically, all ships got a significant hitpoint increase. The same patch also increased the extra hitpoints granted by armor plates and shield extenders and (I think) introduced rigs. These changes combined made ships far more survivable, which in turn made it much harder to use geurilla tactics to gank an opponent and get out before his backup arrived. This had the unfortunate side effect of beginning the ramp-up in numbers you see in gangs today; with targets taking longer to kill and the likelihood of enemy reinforcements showing up during fights, people started bringing more firepower (read: numbers).

There have been a number of other things that have happened since, such as the introduction of must-have ships such as logistics cruisers (i.e. any gang without them is at a severe disadvantage in most instances), the general speed overnerf (I was one of the people calling for speed tanking to be nerfed, but CCP swung the nerfbat too hard, also hitting ships that didn't need to be any slower, such as BS), the overnerfing of webs (they should max at 75% instead of the current 60%; the old 90% was too much), and the added ability of warp scramblers to completely shut off MWD (they should penalize MWD speed instead of shutting them off entirely, IMO). These and many other changes largely killed generalist ships and forced players into more specialized roles, resulting in an increase in the numbers needed to successfully PvP.

Additionally, there are many other things that have been introduced that have had a dramatic adverse effect on gameplay, such as the way carriers, motherships, and titans were implemented (FYI: I have carrier and dreadnought 5 and own both a carrier and a dread), jump bridge networks, etc. These are all things that contribute to one-sided fights and help push smaller entities out.

At the same time, EVE's population has increased massively without a commensurate addition of new systems; while the Drone Regions, wormholes, and Black Rise helped, they were nowhere near enough. Player population and density has had a dramatic effect on the size of the gangs people fly in. Simply spreading the players out more would be very helpful, but it would require the addition of a massive number of new star systems of all categories, from highsec to nullsec.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting to add, but I've gone on long enough in this vein. I don't expect many people to agree with my views, but then I've never cared overmuch what other people think.

SmilingVagrant wrote:
I'm going to go with "Never". There has always been one side complaining about blobs and whining that their small gang of 14 dudes simply cannot beat a corp of 38 dudes.


Wat? Bolded the important part; 14 is not a small gang. A small gang is 3-5. That many people think 14 is small is just another symptom of the bloat that has overcome EVE.

Quote:
a small group of plucky rebels isn't going to destroy a star spanning empire. Get over it.


And you think this is okay? One of the great things that used to be true of EVE is that, as a small entity, you could go out there and make a name for yourself, accomplish something grand. Witness old school Burn Eden - they used to show up in a region of 0.0 and take on entire alliances with only 5 or 10 people. Celestial Apocalypse was another good example. Damage, Inc., Rubra, etc. Hell, Farjung, Ikvar, Drunken One, Dave Tehsulei - these were household names in the EVE community, single players who were known cluster-wide for their capabilities. Now, unless you're engaged in corporate espionage, something like this is largely impossible.

So yeah, keep on promoting the things that prevent players from achieving something epic in the game. EVE's a far smaller and more confining place for it.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#40 - 2012-10-19 03:44:41 UTC
The reason people hate blobs in EVE is they don't emulate or translate to large scale war. They are dps dumps in the form of alpha primary. One guy calling primary for a 20 fleet, 50 fleet, 250 fleet. Always one guy calling single primary. I can tell the second I get on TS it's going to be like that. There are no wing channels, just fleet 1, 2 and 3.
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