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Boycott the Cash-Money Tournament

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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#61 - 2012-10-17 17:27:50 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would also bet that by the time that I was good enough at playing LoL at the level they they do in the tournament I would have that entire game unlocked without paying a dime.


I would also bet by the time you could fly well enough to be competitive in an Eve tournament, your character would have all the skills you're complaining take so long to train up. Or at the very least, you could've made enough isk to buy a character that had them.

Either way, the in-game stuff comes easy enough with time. It's the player's skills and knowledge of the game that matter in both.

I think you are missing the point. How long does it take to train up a 125 million SP character? How much money would it cost to buy a 125 million SP character? Now compare that to the less than a month and the couple of bucks it would take to be competitive in LoL. Hell in Halo all you need to do is buy the game and you have everything you need to get into MLG.

EVE is just a bad game to try to make an Esport that is worth watching and even less so for joining.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#62 - 2012-10-17 17:48:35 UTC
I think this tourny is a fabulous idea, why can't CCP ask for entry fee? Every other sport or game event does.

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#63 - 2012-10-17 18:36:10 UTC
Schalac wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would also bet that by the time that I was good enough at playing LoL at the level they they do in the tournament I would have that entire game unlocked without paying a dime.


I would also bet by the time you could fly well enough to be competitive in an Eve tournament, your character would have all the skills you're complaining take so long to train up. Or at the very least, you could've made enough isk to buy a character that had them.

Either way, the in-game stuff comes easy enough with time. It's the player's skills and knowledge of the game that matter in both.

I think you are missing the point. How long does it take to train up a 125 million SP character? How much money would it cost to buy a 125 million SP character? Now compare that to the less than a month and the couple of bucks it would take to be competitive in LoL. Hell in Halo all you need to do is buy the game and you have everything you need to get into MLG.

EVE is just a bad game to try to make an Esport that is worth watching and even less so for joining.


Very few people have 125M skill points. Certainly not all the tournament players do. That's a ridiculous requirement.

With the level of investment you're offering into LoL, you could have a solid Minmatar battlecruiser pilot with 12-15M skill points and fit right into a tournament squad.

The 100M+ skill point crowd are the ones that can fly every battleship, Most T2 ships, and usually more than one capital ship. Most of those skills are useless in the tournaments.

Now, I'd also argue that you're off base thinking any old level 30 with a couple bucks and a handful of champions to play would be even remotely competitive in an LoL tournament too. You have to know every champion you might come up against, all their moves, and what champions to pick or not pick to counter them. Eve is similar in that you need to know what each ship is capable of if you're up against it, and how to counter the possible ways it might be fit. And all of that is player skill and player knowledge.

I see your point - and I reject it as ill-informed and based on opinions instead of facts.






I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2012-10-17 18:51:04 UTC
Schalac wrote:
D4mane wrote:


The difference with EVE is that you need also the time to train the actual ingame skills as well as the traditional knowhow, as opposed to Starcraft where you need fast fingers and a lot of practice, so there is a entry level barrier in EVE that you don't have in other games.


This. EVE just cannot be an Esport because of this barrier. It takes years of training to hope to compete at that level of play and the people that have been playing longer will always be at an advantage. In games like LoL or Halo or CoD or Starcraft there is a very low bar to have everything you need to compete unlocked to make the playing feild as fair as possible.

In EVE if you have a team of 25 million SP pilots going against a team with 125 million SP pilots the team with more SP can just out ship the lesser trained team, totally dominate them because the lesser SP team can't counter them due to not being able to fly ships, and it is a boring ceremony.

If you want to make EVE an Esport, then at the start of the tourny every team gets an equal pool of SP to divide between the pilots and the team will then build a skillsheet to coincide with the ships they plan on flying based on the ship points they can spend. Because unless it's equal it's not worth watching.

Because all sporting events make sure that no player is more skilled or experienced than another. It's the only way for a game to be "fair". Roll

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#65 - 2012-10-17 18:56:08 UTC
Schalac wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would also bet that by the time that I was good enough at playing LoL at the level they they do in the tournament I would have that entire game unlocked without paying a dime.


I would also bet by the time you could fly well enough to be competitive in an Eve tournament, your character would have all the skills you're complaining take so long to train up. Or at the very least, you could've made enough isk to buy a character that had them.

Either way, the in-game stuff comes easy enough with time. It's the player's skills and knowledge of the game that matter in both.

I think you are missing the point. How long does it take to train up a 125 million SP character? How much money would it cost to buy a 125 million SP character? Now compare that to the less than a month and the couple of bucks it would take to be competitive in LoL. Hell in Halo all you need to do is buy the game and you have everything you need to get into MLG.

EVE is just a bad game to try to make an Esport that is worth watching and even less so for joining.

Out of the 125 mil in your example, how much of that is actually applicable in the tournament?

Yes, the very high skill point character is more flexible in what he can fly, but all he really needs to worry about is that he is well skilled with ships he will be flying for the tournament.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#66 - 2012-10-17 18:58:36 UTC
Interestingly, while there are no EVE players currently (besides myself) where I work, several of my co workers ask me to let them know when the tournaments are so that they can watch the stream (or at least catch them on YouTube later).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-10-17 19:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: qDoctor Strangelove
So, 12 billion isk to enter?
How many billions in crystal implants? Slaves? Snakes?
Faction BS?
Officer mods?

12 bill isk to enter is pocket- change
JamesCLK
#68 - 2012-10-17 19:34:47 UTC
CCP could convert the PLEX from the entry fee into an arbitrary amount of ISK. Let's say 400 million ISK each.
The ISK could be pulled from the accounts of banned RMTers and botters.
28 teams would mean a prize pot of USD 10k plus 224 billion ISK.

    Benefits:
  • CCP can write off the PLEX from their liabilities (PLEX are 'destroyed').
  • Players get a larger prize pot, so more competition.

    • Drawbacks:
  • ISK that was previously not in circulation is reintroduced (net faucet effect, but a relatively minor one).

I think that's reasonable and would help make more people actually care about this particular tournament.

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-10-17 20:42:02 UTC
I edited the original post, hopefully making a few points clearer.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#70 - 2012-10-17 21:58:42 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
It's advertising ... which potentially draws new subscribers.


There are far better means of advertising that could be bought with the money being spent on a tournament. As I said in my earlier post, tournaments advertise a game that nobody actually plays, an experience that is rarely encountered in game, and set a level of expectations which will inevitably lead to new player dissatisfaction.

I will be very happy for the players that notice EVE, try it out, and manage to stay despite the actual game being nothing like the tournament. I would get upset about a cash-prize tournament being funded out of my subscriptions. To my mind having the tournament funded by the competitors and spectators (just like a football game) is an excellent funding model: this ensures that the funding for the activity comes from people who are interested in it.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-10-17 22:09:06 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
how come its always the same no-life douchebags on the first page of every thread?



Because the second and third ones are always on the second/third pages Lol

brb
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#72 - 2012-10-18 02:04:17 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Schalac wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would also bet that by the time that I was good enough at playing LoL at the level they they do in the tournament I would have that entire game unlocked without paying a dime.


I would also bet by the time you could fly well enough to be competitive in an Eve tournament, your character would have all the skills you're complaining take so long to train up. Or at the very least, you could've made enough isk to buy a character that had them.

Either way, the in-game stuff comes easy enough with time. It's the player's skills and knowledge of the game that matter in both.

I think you are missing the point. How long does it take to train up a 125 million SP character? How much money would it cost to buy a 125 million SP character? Now compare that to the less than a month and the couple of bucks it would take to be competitive in LoL. Hell in Halo all you need to do is buy the game and you have everything you need to get into MLG.

EVE is just a bad game to try to make an Esport that is worth watching and even less so for joining.


Very few people have 125M skill points. Certainly not all the tournament players do. That's a ridiculous requirement.

With the level of investment you're offering into LoL, you could have a solid Minmatar battlecruiser pilot with 12-15M skill points and fit right into a tournament squad.

The 100M+ skill point crowd are the ones that can fly every battleship, Most T2 ships, and usually more than one capital ship. Most of those skills are useless in the tournaments.

Now, I'd also argue that you're off base thinking any old level 30 with a couple bucks and a handful of champions to play would be even remotely competitive in an LoL tournament too. You have to know every champion you might come up against, all their moves, and what champions to pick or not pick to counter them. Eve is similar in that you need to know what each ship is capable of if you're up against it, and how to counter the possible ways it might be fit. And all of that is player skill and player knowledge.

I see your point - and I reject it as ill-informed and based on opinions instead of facts.







And a smart high skilled tournement player would see that this person can ony fly minny BC and then face **** him when they played each other because he could fit a counter. It doesn't even have to be 125 million SP. It could be 60 million and that takes 3 years to train to. While in LoL you spend $20 and you get half the champions unlocked and then you can cherry pick the rest of the good ones for maybe 20-30 more.

If you wanted to do the same in EVE first you would have to find a character that had the skills that you wanted for the tourny, then you would have to spend hundreds of dollars to purchase it. Then spend hundreds more to enter the tourny. Does that sound like a good recuitment policy? I can't see hundreds of people just picking up EVE for competitive PVP with that barrier.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-10-18 03:52:15 UTC
How is Poetic Stanzei's alliance name not banned by now?

This sounds like a job for the ISD.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-10-18 04:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Tear Miner wrote:
How is Poetic Stanziel's alliance name not banned by now?
Because slaves are part of EVE Online's backstory and lore.

Take up your issue with CCP. We're just roleplayers, minding our own business, in Fweddit. :)
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-10-18 05:53:28 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Imawuss wrote:
So your mad that the game is using PLEX as an entrance fee, becuase why again? Is it becuase it will perhaps it will raise the price of plex. If you think it will raise the price then you should buy some now and sell them for a profit.
Thanks for reading.

The plex fee is fine. CCP using the plex to fund the tourney is not fine. Putting the plex fee back into the tournament as prizes would be fantastic.

The tourney doesn't cost that much, in the first place. CCP should be writing off the expense as a marketing cost, not forcing the players to fund the damned thing.


OK so not so elegantly written... So you're mad CCP is possibly making money off this?? You have no idea the details of the arrangement CCP has with own3d(thats who is runnign it i believe), or what the cost are, just specualtion based off of nothing. But lets say CCP does make 10k off the deal... So what? does it affect you in anyway except provide content? NO!

Letting people pay with plex is smart, now people can pay with in-game money to join that tourny. It has 0 affact on you yet provides content for those who will watch and those who will participate.
Before you say but look at the plex price!! that affacts me... Guess again Demand for plex has stayed the same yet the price has been icnreasing which mean the SUPPLY is down not that demand is up.

But hey gotta complain about somehting right?
Demolishar
United Aggression
#76 - 2012-10-18 07:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Demolishar
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
So, 12 billion isk to enter?
How many billions in crystal implants? Slaves? Snakes?
Faction BS?
Officer mods?

12 bill isk to enter is pocket- change


Pirate Implants: 3bil x 8 = 24b
Faction BS: 1bil x 8 = 8b (You're not even ALLOWED 8 of these by the point system)
Officer mods: 0bil (Not allowed)

24+8 = 32
12 is a significant portion of the total :)
And of course, it's 12 MINIMUM. I fully expect the bids to be much higher than a mere 20 PLEX with the amount of ISK the heavy hitters have these days.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-10-18 12:25:56 UTC
Dear OP,

Why write a blog when you just regurgitate it on these forums?

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#78 - 2012-10-19 07:03:54 UTC
I dunno about a boycott because of the fee size, but if CCP is looking at this as a marketing opportunity maybe we should. CCP seems to have forgotten what a total mockery the tournaments have been? All that's going to happen is to get serious gamers outside of EVE laughing their asses off at a cartoon WWF knock off.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#79 - 2012-10-19 07:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
We're just roleplayers, minding our own business...

No you don't. You write copious thousands of pixels elsewhere and then repost the whole fn lot here minding everybody elses business.


Quote:
Because slaves are part of EVE Online's backstory and lore.

Gonna start a corp with the word GATE in it.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#80 - 2012-10-19 07:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: destiny2
Mai Khumm wrote:
The cost is the main reason myself, and everyone I talked to is refusing to enter this "tournament"


5isk says some scandal/rigging will be involved...


Look at the bright side, If you manage to come across a top alliance, and take them down to 1 ship they might pay you alot of isk to self destruct.