EVE General Discussion

Of course most of what has been said only stands true if you believe PvP is just about ships exploding.

The only real PvE in eve is missions.
Everything else you have to compete over.


Nulsec Ratting is acceptable, but it's an ISK-Faucet
Hisec Mining is unnacceptable, but it's an ISK-Sink

The "PvP is all about assplodin ships" brigade have really wierd double standards.

As an industrial player in nullsec you are going to have to be thick skinned. And have your escape route, one that does NOT depend on any alliance based jump bridges well planned. Make safe spots all along the way. Keep them private. Make them corp safe spots only at the very last minute.

To any alliance executor reading this if you think allowing this kind of thing to go on makes you look like a leader or is helping you build a better alliance all I can say is you obviously know your members better than I do so keep up the good work.

I would actually say that everything, including missions, is PvP in EVE, simply because the main fulcrum in EVE is ISK, and missions are a way people earn ISK. Missions are clearly the least direct form of PvP (much less so than indy play or trading or some other non-combat playstyle), but they are still central to the all-encompassing aspect of EVE of achieving a goodly pile of ISK, and a steady stream of it, to fund whatever *other* thing you like to do in the game (combat, indy, trading, empire buiding, wars, etc.).

This presents the main challenge to new players. SPs are only a part of the issue -- ISK is a bigger part, in my opinion. EVE is expensive, in ISK terms, for a new player. Sure, they can buy PLEX, but that's a short-cut that many/most new players aren't going to want to do, and frankly shouldn't be encouraged by more advanced players, either. The reality is that you need ISK to do things in EVE, even to fly around in a cheaply fit Rifter in FW or something like that. Now, that doesn't take a lot of ISK, and is virtually no ISK for a vet player, but for a new player it's significant ISK when they lose that ship and its mods, and so that as much as anything else tends to impact the new player experience (most other MMOs simply don't place new players in an instant economic crunch, something which can't be helped due to our dynamic player economy, really). That's why you tend to see so many newbies doing things they don't like to do simply to earn ISK. The key, of course, is channeling new players into some ISK earning activity that they enjoy at least somewhat, rather than seeing ISK-making as something that is garbage to be endured -- that's a challenge, I think, but is the right direction.

Ppl don't want to play eve coz skill points its that easy.. They don't want to be rookies. That's why eve is freaking boring. Waiting 3 weeks for bs 5 ?? Are you joking ? Eve will pay for that soon (tm) .

And I think that the only chance for eve is avatar game. Space is over.. You will see ..

I have read the postings on this thread with a lot of interest as I am one of those people this thread is discussing.

I started playing Eve with the idea that I was gonna play the part of a space fighter pilot and go up against other space pilots for fame and glory. I didn't know if I wanted to be good or maybe not so good, I just knew I wanted to fly a space ship with lasers and photon torpedoes and I wanted to blow stuff up in the cold, harsh vacuum of space.

I started my account back in July under the buddy program with a friend. He immediately joined fweddit. I was traveling and the only computer I had access to during the trial period was a netbook without any voice comm.. so I did the training tutorials, trained up skills and waited until I got home to my real computer before joining any corp.

I joined E-Uni as soon as I had voice com and with the ISK from the plex my buddy and I split I had plenty of cash to start my career as a capsuleer. I didnt want to do FW because I didnt know what it was and I sure didnt want to pick a side and destroy standings until I know which side I wanted to be on, and Fweddit's recruitment page said I had to be active on their forums for a while before the would even consider my application so I joined E-Uni. I learned a lot from E-Uni, but mostly I learned that mining and mission running were pretty uninteresting to me. After a week or two in Uni I heard about something called "Low Sec Camp". That sounded interesting so I moved a bunch of stuff down there and began to learn all about living in low sec.

Low Sec was fun and cool, but I had almost no skills. I trained up core skills. I trained up tanking skills. I trained up nav skills.. Then I trained some more. I had one nice hour long mentoring session with Sivney Quincannon (if I remember correctly) but after several weeks in Low Sec Camp -- mostly spent making lots of bookmarks and safe spots -- I got the feeling that no one wanted my in my puny T1 frigates. "Nope.. you sure cannot scout for us".. "Naw, you really need a Cruiser or better to come with us into this worm hole". I left Low Sec Camp and E-Uni several weeks later. What finally convinced me to try something different was several days of all voice comm in the low sec camp chat channel was about how cool it was to be on SiSi and practicing with FancyShipX. These people were not even logged onto the server, but taking up 100% of the bandwidth on the voice comm.

Incidentally, my buddy quit eve at this point and has zero interest in playing any longer.

I have been in RvB for almost two months now. I have a bit less than 5 million skill points. I can fly and fit Cruisers and a lot of Tech 2 modules but no Tech 2 hulls yet. But I am still flying around in Tech 1 frigates with Tech 1 modules. Why? Well, hell, I am still learning how to fly basic frigates. It's pretty hard finding someone who is interested in 1v1 flying.. and those that are will seldom offer much feedback other than "keep flying and blowing up ships" you'll get better eventually.

I dont really care for the blob fighting which seems to be most of what I have seen. Are there no combined arms tactics in Eve? Most big fights I have been involved with seem to be "blast away at the primary until dead, then go on to the new primary".

Now, I will admit, I could be more motivated and I could take initiative. I could log on and spam "seeking 1v1 pvp" but my actually gaming time is rather limited and very seldom do I have more than an hour or two to game at any one time or on any particular day. So, if I log on and spend 20 minutes looking for a fight that is 20% of my gaming time gone. if I am lucky and find someone interested in a 1v1 I almost always get blown up, which is fine, but some feedback other than "gf" would be finer.

I think a big part of my problem is that I work USTZ evenings and weekends. My prime gaming time is after midnite when server populations are low. On those evenings I am not working I usually spend time with my family. Playing during the day, before work, is usually not an option either.

So, anyway.. I know this post sounds ranty and whiney and I am supposed to post with an anonymous alt and I might not be too clear, but it is coffee time for me now and I am just waking up. I have 4 days left of my subscription and right now I am *not* going to pay for another month. I really wanted to like and to enjoy playing this game but so far my impression has been rather "meh".

The metagame sounds interesting but before I metagame I want to learn how to fly these frigates. I hear about "slingshotting" and "kiting" but if my only pvp experiences are in blobs how can I learn these skills? I dont mind getting blown up repeatedly.. I dont even mind getting podded. I can afford to buy plex any time I need to refill my ISK wallet so that is not the problem.
Can Eve be played casually -- 8 to 12 hours a week -- aside from logging on refill my training queue?

Is FW the answer? Everyone says it is broken.
Low Sec? Is that nice corp gonna insist I fly bigger ships when I still dont really understand frigates?
Null Sec? Oh wait, I need another 3 months of training.
Solo? Nope, I need a scout account. Why should I need multiple accounts to play? And playing with multilple accounts isnt really solo, is it?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my post. Advice and Flames welcomed.

Termagant (TM) Program For Female Players

Open only to that rarest subsets of nerds: the biological female player of EVE. There are no double standards. Equal work for equal pay.

Succeed Or Die Screaming

Regardless of Age, Racial or Ethnic identity, Alliance Affiliation, gender, sexual identity, differently abled ability, the same standard is applied to all employees. Instead of being a Jabberwocky, an oddity, a target for unconscious adolescent inadequacies, a different species, an alien (Is Venus a Lava Planet then?) you will be judged on how well you play the game.

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Equal Work For Equal Pay

A female player (I'm told) is in a position to put the Hearts and Minds strategies to use with terrifying and exhillerating ease. You don't have to be a woman to know that all you have to do is unbutton your top button and he won't even notice you've led him to the air lock; and if you just unbutton one more while you hack through the safety overrides; he'll stand there, hands and nose pressed against the window, eyes wide, mouth open, waiting for you to unbutton a third. If you can flush 4 victims through airlocks in the time it takes a male agent to flush 1 victim, you get paid for 4 and he gets paid for 1. Anything less is discrimination or, worse, an incentive system based on something other than results.

Have you ever wanted to be a Catherine? a femme fatale? A Medina who stops at nothing at all in order to achieve the ecstasy of the perfect revenge? Trick question. You already have. In Real Life. (Its called dating.) Now you just have to decide if you have the nerve to do it in a computer game. C'mon. You know you want to. And its low in unsaturated fats. And its delicious.

an underestimated problem is that newbs are often Spy -Alts, you think the now common 5 mil SP limit for most corps (I assume it already increased) is because, we only want active players? Not completely true, the probality that someone creates an Spy -Alt
five months in advance is far lower then creating an 1-2 month old Spy - Account.

I hate to say it, because it keeps me in the game, but the meta-gaming is the biggest problem in acquiring new longterm players...and this includes that aspects of metagaming also often exclude casual gamers.

I disagree. I recently joined and left RVB because of how they operate. Nothing against them, but all they do is form fleets and fight. They don't explain anything. I just kept getting blown up, because I'm in a cheap kestrel 5 days old and I'm fighting people in Dramiels and T2 fitted ships. WHat exactly am I learning about PVP? I decided to leave and just park my toon to train up.

However not everyone has my patience, which is why so many keep leaving.

Another issue I see is the exclusivity of the null sec alliances and how much crap they require for new people to join out of fear of spying. Bottom line EVE is extremely hostile to new players. Some like that, some don't. I sure hope CCP is making decent money though because, yeah, 8 out of 10 new people leave within a month? Can't be good for business. They can start by having a better tutorial system and E-UNI can help by not having such a PITA entry process.

I really wish people would stop recommending RVB as a training Alliance. They are not. Good folks, but it's not for days old people, I'm sorry, I disagree with that.

Instance NPE. Yes it strays away from the "one universe" aspect a bit, however its short term and allows more structure as well as flexibly when it comes to new players without effecting the game as a whole. This would allow somewhat controlled situations for new players to learn PVP at a level playing field, instead of the normal newbie PVP=suicide tackler.

What you need is people willing to invest time in you as a player. I'm not talking recruiters promising milk and honey, but people on your wavelength that can offer up advice, take you out on roams, fix your terrible fits (and explain why they are terrible). Basically explain all these little fiddly bits that appear complicated and overwhelming as a new player. For simplicity's sake let's call these people friends. If you can make them, you will have a great time. If not, well, you better be a persistent little ******.