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What does winter changes mean for Missioning?
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TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-10-12 07:45:46 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
They really need to put people that ninja salvage in Suspect mode as well (allows aggression from the victim).
I think it should drop the timers down to 10 or 5 min though myself. /shrug.

~Z


If the salvagers take from the wrecks they should flag. Simply salvaging a wreck with a salvager should not flag nor should it allow aggression. You don't own a wreck, you own the contents of a wreck. You also already have the added bonus of owning the ability to tractor the wreck.

Timers are good at 15m

...

Alayna Le'line
#42 - 2012-10-12 11:53:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alayna Le'line
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Sentries can tank surprisingly well.


Not only that, but if I'm reading FoxFour's posts even vaguely correctly you'll actually have more control over agro than now. I wouldn't be surprised at all that putting a single RR on your drones guarantees rats will only shoot the ship. Which, of course, is perfect for sentries.


And even better for AFK mission runners...

The only people really impacted are ATK mission runners, especially those not using sentries and even more especially low SP characters running missions in for example a Vexor, as the frig rats (= most rats) are very likely to switch to the drones instead of shooting the cruiser. That said maybe the cruiser tiercide will take the AI change in mind and there will enough room on the new cruisers to work around this (by fitting some ECM for example).

Btw is it just me or have rats already been shooting drones a lot more lately? Yesterday I had aggro on the entire room in a few L4s and my drones were still getting eaten...did they sneak the new AI already onto TQ to prove a point or is there some weird bug going on?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-10-12 16:11:23 UTC
Alayna Le'line wrote:
Btw is it just me or have rats already been shooting drones a lot more lately? Yesterday I had aggro on the entire room in a few L4s and my drones were still getting eaten...did they sneak the new AI already onto TQ to prove a point or is there some weird bug going on?


Had the same thing happen over the weekend running Angel Extravaganza, the last room. Lost 3 hammerheads before I noticed they were taking damage even though everything was shooting at me (red boxes). Only noticed it that once though.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#44 - 2012-10-12 18:07:52 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
They really need to put people that ninja salvage in Suspect mode as well (allows aggression from the victim).
I think it should drop the timers down to 10 or 5 min though myself. /shrug.

~Z


If the salvagers take from the wrecks they should flag. Simply salvaging a wreck with a salvager should not flag nor should it allow aggression. You don't own a wreck, you own the contents of a wreck. You also already have the added bonus of owning the ability to tractor the wreck.

Timers are good at 15m



Actually, no. You shot it, you put the work (and sometimes risk) into killing it, you own it. Being able to walk up and take the salvage from someone with no recourse is a crock. They would get concorded themselves for even trying to stop you, which is not right.

Just my view on it of course, but thats the way I see it.

A fun fix also would be to put increased aggro on salvaging while npc's are still alive. Would at least force them to tank up or support their ship.

~Z

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-10-14 21:59:43 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
TheSkeptic wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
They really need to put people that ninja salvage in Suspect mode as well (allows aggression from the victim).
I think it should drop the timers down to 10 or 5 min though myself. /shrug.

~Z


If the salvagers take from the wrecks they should flag. Simply salvaging a wreck with a salvager should not flag nor should it allow aggression. You don't own a wreck, you own the contents of a wreck. You also already have the added bonus of owning the ability to tractor the wreck.

Timers are good at 15m



Actually, no. You shot it, you put the work (and sometimes risk) into killing it, you own it. Being able to walk up and take the salvage from someone with no recourse is a crock. They would get concorded themselves for even trying to stop you, which is not right.

Just my view on it of course, but thats the way I see it.

A fun fix also would be to put increased aggro on salvaging while npc's are still alive. Would at least force them to tank up or support their ship.

~Z



Just IMO it would be pointless to make salvaging the same thing as stealing because there is no point in shooting at someone that becomes flashy. That's an old trap and a fast way to lose your mission ship.

I do like the idea to make it where someone can't just pop in your mission with an untanked frigate and loot/ salvage while the mission runner tanks the aggro. Currently there is zero risk and lots of reward for a ninja looter/ salvager.

Oh just before someone says it yes the risk is for mission running but it takes a lot more skill to do efficiently than ninja salvaging. The only thing required to ninja salvage is a few scanning skills. THey don't need to train any of the core skills, gunnery/ missile skills and tanking skills that mission runners need.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#46 - 2012-10-15 02:00:09 UTC
If CCP made drones 25% of their current manufacture costs, then mission runners would'nt care about drone losses.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#47 - 2012-10-16 16:49:13 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
i'm curious about the aggro mechanic changes more than anything. if you have ever flown a drake in C1-C3, you know what a pain it is to keep your drones alive. if mission rat AI adapts this behavior, gallente gonna have a bad time.
frankly, i am already considering buying 10000 T1 drones and just abandoning them in each mission room like kittens on the freeway.



YOU, sir, YOU are the reason we have a rogue drone problem.
Swarm Of Bees
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-10-16 20:22:41 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

lol, so there I am whoring away to my hearts content and I lose connection..lets say a power cut or a telecomms issue, something I have no control over, so according to you my carrier/sc is now scannable for 15mins and there's nothing I can do about it.

First time that happens to me I'll be bye bye EVE, sounds like a really stupid idea. In fact, that stupid I must have got it wrong.


How about you not rat in a capital like an idiot?
Freundliches Feuer
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-10-19 09:52:26 UTC
Swarm Of Bees wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

lol, so there I am whoring away to my hearts content and I lose connection..lets say a power cut or a telecomms issue, something I have no control over, so according to you my carrier/sc is now scannable for 15mins and there's nothing I can do about it.

First time that happens to me I'll be bye bye EVE, sounds like a really stupid idea. In fact, that stupid I must have got it wrong.


How about you not rat in a capital like an idiot?


He can rat in what he wants, just because CCP makes a ******** change doesn't make him stupid for doing it.

Its a game, people play for fun you know...
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#50 - 2012-10-20 16:57:14 UTC
Although I haven't tested it myself, I have received reports that NPC log off timer is still 15 minutes on Duality. Can someone confirm/deny?

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#51 - 2012-10-20 22:36:10 UTC
Signal11th wrote:


lol, so there I am whoring away to my hearts content and I lose connection..lets say a power cut or a telecomms issue, something I have no control over, so according to you my carrier/sc is now scannable for 15mins and there's nothing I can do about it.

First time that happens to me I'll be bye bye EVE, sounds like a really stupid idea. In fact, that stupid I must have got it wrong.



While I know you would never do it, it may shock you to know that people use logoff to escape from a PvP situation Shocked. They seem to think that by logging off their carrier/sc they should be safe, since killing one w/in the current time limit is really only possible for a cap fleet that happens to be waiting by, and with the silly tool local is that's not very likely.

I guess CCP considers this a lame tactic, which is why they are changing it. Since I'm sure you would never do it, I guess you have other cap pilots to blame for this nerf to your game. By the way, which systems do you rat in? Pirate
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#52 - 2012-10-21 00:15:42 UTC
IIshira wrote:
[*snip*

Oh just before someone says it yes the risk is for mission running but it takes a lot more skill to do efficiently than ninja salvaging. The only thing required to ninja salvage is a few scanning skills. THey don't need to train any of the core skills, gunnery/ missile skills and tanking skills that mission runners need.



This is specifically the reason I think increasing aggro generation on salvaging while npc's are active would be a good start towards a fix. Being able to get low skills and take salvage from someone with no recourse available should not be so easy to pull off. Ninja salvaging can make quite a bit of money (which is taking it from the missioner) with a noctis in short order by taking all of the salvage away.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Lord Leftfield
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-10-21 11:14:04 UTC
15 minute timer? Big smile I migth start roaming around with an expanded probe launcher Twisted Tbh, people just logs off at their pos or their station. Other people doing stuff in places where you can do neither is jut probably having to fit a cloak. At least bots wont be able to log off automatic when you enter system Pirate

Life is just a 420 all the way home :) Please give me more of that chocolate brew!!
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#54 - 2012-10-22 20:31:29 UTC
Edited with new max number of missions change

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-10-22 22:26:29 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
Although I haven't tested it myself, I have received reports that NPC log off timer is still 15 minutes on Duality. Can someone confirm/deny?


I can confirm, 15 minutes... also my sentries didn't get much in the way of aggro, but the one kept being targeted even after I scooped and deployed just that one.

Just the 2 drones got targeted actually, with my domis taking pretty much all the heat - which did move back and forth a bit.


The lack of aggro on the drones might be because I have 2 RR domis.


Also, did anyone notice the officer drone mods?
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#56 - 2012-10-22 23:47:40 UTC
Has anyone taken a frigate or cruiser in with them into an L4 to test if L1 is targeting same hull size as a preference?

Ideally the Battleships should be focusing on the larger hull while the small ships should go into a dogfight with your buddy.

Had my PC fry on me so I'm on my craptop and can't test squat.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lee Church
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-10-24 15:26:33 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
TheSkeptic wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
They really need to put people that ninja salvage in Suspect mode as well (allows aggression from the victim).
I think it should drop the timers down to 10 or 5 min though myself. /shrug.

~Z


If the salvagers take from the wrecks they should flag. Simply salvaging a wreck with a salvager should not flag nor should it allow aggression. You don't own a wreck, you own the contents of a wreck. You also already have the added bonus of owning the ability to tractor the wreck.

Timers are good at 15m



Actually, no. You shot it, you put the work (and sometimes risk) into killing it, you own it. Being able to walk up and take the salvage from someone with no recourse is a crock. They would get concorded themselves for even trying to stop you, which is not right.

Just my view on it of course, but thats the way I see it.

A fun fix also would be to put increased aggro on salvaging while npc's are still alive. Would at least force them to tank up or support their ship.

~Z



Just IMO it would be pointless to make salvaging the same thing as stealing because there is no point in shooting at someone that becomes flashy. That's an old trap and a fast way to lose your mission ship.

I do like the idea to make it where someone can't just pop in your mission with an untanked frigate and loot/ salvage while the mission runner tanks the aggro. Currently there is zero risk and lots of reward for a ninja looter/ salvager.

Oh just before someone says it yes the risk is for mission running but it takes a lot more skill to do efficiently than ninja salvaging. The only thing required to ninja salvage is a few scanning skills. THey don't need to train any of the core skills, gunnery/ missile skills and tanking skills that mission runners need.


How about only letting corp/fleet mates into a mission you have accepted?

lets forget about "immersion" and "that wouldnt happen irl?!"

of course this would only work for missions with warp gates, and i dont want gates removed. that has problems too. However, this change would stop ninjas even trying to scan you down and warp to your mission. because over 90% of the time (lv4 hisec missions, guessing) it will have a gate on it.

worse case scenario is that this will give us another kind of mission to avoid, like the ones against other empires.
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