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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Anton Zuber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#781 - 2012-10-14 23:38:35 UTC
Gris X wrote:
TWHC Assistant wrote:
Gris X wrote:
Sturmwolke wrote:

While not an issue per se, it gets annoying not being able to AFK autopilot to destinations in a timely manner (aka not using cruiser hulls or above) when you've got a PERPETUAL red bull's eye painted on .

But you would only have that if you podded someone in low sec, or agressed in high sec, both actions fairly easy to avoid..it is your choice...

What is your point? One does not get bounties for podding a pilot in high-sec?

The dev blog says:

"Note that bounties are paid out for anything that creates a kill report, so you’ll get bounty paid for destroying for instance a POS belonging to a corporation that has a bounty placed on it."

This tells me a bounty will be paid no matter what.


but to destroy a ship in high sec where most of auto piloting is done still requires having a kill right available on that person... A bounty by itself does not grant any specific right to be attacked, and my point was that it is fairly easy to avoid getting a kill right : just do not pod in low sec or aggress in high sec....


You're overlooking a much more dangerous truth. Suicides. If your bounty is high enough, and you are in an expensive enough ship, say your L4 mission ship worth 2 bil, they can collect a 400m bounty from killing you. That pays for a pretty intimidating suicide ship (or team) from the bounty alone, not to mention the salvage from your wreck.

You thought high sec was scary for bears before? It's about to get a whole lot worse.
Plenor Garlin
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
#782 - 2012-10-15 02:14:05 UTC
Thread summary:


  • This sucks because it makes high sec more safe.
  • This sucks because it makes high sec less safe.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#783 - 2012-10-15 02:26:05 UTC
Plenor Garlin wrote:
Thread summary:

  • This sucks because it makes high sec more safe.
  • This sucks because it makes high sec less safe.

  • This owns because it achieves a neat mix of both.
Anton Zuber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#784 - 2012-10-15 04:12:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Anton Zuber
Plenor Garlin wrote:
Thread summary:


  • This sucks because it makes high sec more safe.
  • This sucks because it makes high sec less safe.


LOL, it's true though.

On one hand, we have people concerned about bounties being applied liberally and attracting more suicides and ganks. The idea here is that gankers, often do have more money than your average bear because they simply play a lot more. So they can afford to slap bounties liberally on people to farm the tears. This concerns bears, because they're worried they will be at more risk for suicides because of this. This concerns me personally some because if someone decides to slap a bil bounty on someone just to be a douche, the victim of that bounty is going to be in a difficult spot. It will suddenly be lucrative for people to gank him any time he tries to run missions. Anytime he undocks at all really, he's going to be at serious risk. This could lead to people flat out quitting because the game suddenly became unplayable from their perspective.

On the other hand, we have people concerned about how kill rights are going to be handled which leads to a situation where a bear, can activate rights on someone, and let others do the dirty work for him. This mainly concerns gankers, because they're the only ones people are likely to have kill rights on in the first place. This concerns me, because I think it's just not fair to trip a suspect flag on people. It should be a different flag just between the hunter(s) and the prey. It shouldn't be an open invite to the world.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#785 - 2012-10-15 04:28:33 UTC
While I understand the objection to kill rights automatically flagging the person Suspect, on principle, I'm not sure why there's so much panic over the consequences. This is high sec. When you go flashy, half the ships who see you are going to be industrials; most of the rest will be PVE'ers in PVE boats, from underfit destroyers piloted by new players to shiny incursion boats. The odds that there will be any kind of pile-up are fairly low. The odds that it will be effective are even lower. Most people in high sec mind their own business.

Solid red pilots fly through high sec right now, not just in pods either.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#786 - 2012-10-15 07:01:15 UTC
Carver Be'Goode Zanjoahir wrote:
One consequence Eve may find from this action is the huge numbers of subscribers who prefer to not participate directly in PvP may just leave if they are forced into it with yet another way to "encourage" every player to devote all their time to PvP.

You seem to be forgetting that this is a pvp-focused game. Players have the right to avoid pvp, but they don't have the right to opt out of it.

Carver Be'Goode Zanjoahir wrote:
I suppose there will be challenges offered and we will review your history to see if you would be a worthy opponent. Yes actions have consequences and we are not impressed by your many shuttle kills and high sec ganks of indies. When we do warfare, we do it with warriors and not with those who are more interested in collateral damage of basicly "civilians" who are not equipped to fight. Go ahead and gank all you like, but we have no interest in having your history on our killboard.

I'm just going to go ahead and call you out on this. It sounds to me that you're simply fully aware of how superior these people are to you when it comes to pvp, and you're trying to justify your avoidance of them with excuses.

Don't worry, I see that all the time. Whether I offer a 1vs1 and get declined while being told that I'd lose anyway, or I have a war target corporation disband because they're apparently bored/tired of picking on "noob griefers," the story is always the same. You're just a hypocrite who refuses to fight people you secretly know are stronger on the pretense that they're beneath you.

It's no wonder you're against the good half of the pvp changes in this patch.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#787 - 2012-10-15 08:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
Salpad wrote:
Natalie Cerulean wrote:
While part of me was hoping for a system in which bounties meant that someone could be shot anywhere I suppose this is a good way to protect the "pure" carebears while at the same time the "buyable" kill rights mean that even if they are just a weekend warrior in terms of pvp they can still be attacked in high sec.


Keep in mind, if somebody puts a bounty on old Salpad the Carebear (with no good cause for doing so), and it meant I'm killable in high-esc, then I flat out wouldn't be able to undock in anything except shuttles (and with a jump clone with no implants). It would severely cramp my style, and I'd strongly be tempted to quit playing forever, not because it's unfair, but because a kill-rights-in-high-sec on me bounty would make the game completely unplayable for me.

And I'm not some immature rage-quitter. I'm simply saying, if I become unable to undock, then I will unsubscribe and never come back.


Really? Are you serious?

What I can say or do when around 60-80 people have their killrights active on me? Huh?

But seriously, grow a pair.
I can't wait to see that all phail bounty hunters will try to kill me.. Oh wait they will never go to lowsec Lol

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Ochiniwa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#788 - 2012-10-15 09:33:29 UTC
Hi,

I just tried to read through the different posts to see what type of feedback has been given and if any ideas about the bounty system I had, had already been mentioned... Now there are 40 pages already and I am a lazy reader.

So here are some thoughts I wanted to share and if they have all been answered just ignore them.

1) CCP wants to get rid of High-Sec ganking?

Well I think this is a good way to do it, as the guy being ganked will put a bounty on all the gankers (even if it is a small one) and give the kill rights to whomever wants it, i.e. make him a suspect flag which allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

As soon as the guys reenter high-sec, they can be attacked by everyone. And a lot of people will want to kill just to kill, a flashy target on a gate is always tempting and juicy.

Did I get this right?

Does the player who's got kill-rights on him get informed on his suspect flag?

2) Payment

It would be interesting to make the payout dependant on the sec status, i.e. the lower the sec-status, the more money you get paid out of the bounty. It is easy for a null-sec to go ratting for a higher sec-status however it is boring! And it will force some of them to grind sec-status which can be seen as a punishment for killing the poor carebears Roll

3) Kill rights

You should take care about the kill rights since it might reduce PVP. Not sure where I read it but is it true that you will only get kill-rights if you are being attacked in high-sec (without being killed) or podded in low-sec? If that is so then I think it is ok.

Other than this, I REALLY LIKE the upcoming changes! Makes it easier to understand for the players and more fun but will reduce aggressions in high-sec.

Keep up the good work,
Cheers,
Ochi
Ochiniwa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#789 - 2012-10-15 09:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ochiniwa
Plenor Garlin wrote:
Thread summary:


  • This sucks because it makes high sec more safe.
  • This sucks because it makes high sec less safe.



- This is great because it makes high sec more safe.
- This is great because it makes high sec less safe.
StarRanger 2ndClass
Royal Star Ranger Family
#790 - 2012-10-15 10:37:16 UTC
StarRanger 2ndClass wrote:
Quote:
We’re aiming to continue to use the Billboards and CQs to show Most Wanted status.


Are the Billboards going to give the names of Most Wanted in that region of space or just in general?

Also, it would be cool if you could access a Billboard to see if the guy your looking for came through the system recently so you can try to track them. Twisted


Can a Dev please give a reaction on my question above? Thx! Roll
J Kunjeh
#791 - 2012-10-15 12:13:47 UTC
So here's an interesting spin on the new bounty system and one that hadn't occurred to me. This quote is from Nyphur's latest Eve Evolved article over at Massively.com:

"I could really see this taking off in lowsec and nullsec, too. Since bounties are split between fleet members, a large alliance can put a bounty on its enemy to motivate troops to join fleets and fight. PvP fleets currently use killboard stats to see whether they dealt more financial damage than they received during a battle, but with a bounty in place, individual pilots may actually come out of a battle with more ISK than they went in with."

That is indeed a great way to use the new system! Pay your troops to fight.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Esker Sheep
The Black Sheep Inc
#792 - 2012-10-15 12:14:53 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

Oh cr**

Not thrilled about this one.

One would think that with max ss CONCORD would refuse to accept the bounty for such a good person.


The bounty system needs to be open to one and all. If you've no kill rights and don't leave high-sec then it would have to be a suicide ganker to go after you. In that case it would have to be a sizeable bounty and you'd have to be in a very expensive ship for it to be worthwhile.

What's wrong with putting out a bounty on someone that has scammed you in Jita regardless of their sec status? They might have caused you more pain than the pirate that blew up your rifter in low-sec.

Bloodpetal wrote:
[
I like the anonymity, and I like the idea of knowing who put a bounty on my head.

Perhaps you can make it a fee. Pay 5m ISK to find out who put a bounty on my head. It's an ISK sink, and it puts a layer of "do I really want to know that much?".


Just add it to the services provided by locator agents.

Matt Grav wrote:

Should we be able to retract a bounty that we have placed ? Maybe at the loss of a % of the remaining bounty isk.


I can see this as being exploited for s**t and giggles. Once into the system there shouldn't be a way of getting in back. To that end wouldn't return bounties on inactive characters either. The bounty should stay regardless. If you put a bounty on an inactive character then that's your loss. This is EVE it should be unforgiving of stupidity Twisted
J Kunjeh
#793 - 2012-10-15 12:44:20 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Just highlighting a case scenario, a minimum 75-100mil bounty on a person will pretty much means that there will be no AFK travels in frigates/interceptors or anything that will melt from a dessie in a 0.5 system. The state of the current game is such, there are gankers with -10 sec metagaming this regularly (even in a 1.0 system), targeting afk frigates and pods. A typical pod (for the less PVP inclined players) has a pretty high chance of carrying implants worth at least 500mil. So, pretty much, to claim 20% of 500mil only costs a dessie loss (and a noob frigate for the pod). Sec status is irrelevant.

While not an issue per se, it gets annoying not being able to AFK autopilot to destinations in a timely manner (aka not using cruiser hulls or above) when you've got a PERPETUAL red bull's eye painted on you.
Bounties need to have an expiry period and associated costs to extend them, just like insurance.


What the...? Yeah, you should NEVER be AFK travelling...period. So any mechanic that makes it easy to do so should be canned immediately.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#794 - 2012-10-15 13:24:40 UTC
Just to make it clear, I really like the new concept of bounty hunting. Here are some random reasons:

  1. A corp or alliance can now motivate his members to engage the enemy by placing a bounty on the whole enemy. This is great!
  2. Bounty hunting will now get a real profession since killing enemy ship is much easier than killing the pod. This is great!
  3. GCC-Kills will now finally have some real consquences, because you have to fear that someone buys the kill right on your and activates whenever he feels comfortable. This is great!
  4. If you are a tycoon you now can spend some ISK into a bounty to let others do the dirty work... nice!
  5. If your victim for bounty gets ganked in high sec => GCCed then he has the option to a) sell the kill right and b) but a bounty on the pirate as additional motivation... so this will open a new way of ISK-warefare. Very funny!
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#795 - 2012-10-15 13:46:29 UTC
New bounty system will cause a big problems for Yarrbears.
Going to lowsec to shoot someone ocassionally and then going back to hisec to farm / trade whatever will be very risky for them.
That's too bad cuz people needs a place for getting started their PvP experience and this change will not encourage them to do it .
So in long term this will cause less people will go to lowsec for pew and those who will decide to do it will be less experienced.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Esker Sheep
The Black Sheep Inc
#796 - 2012-10-15 15:49:20 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
New bounty system will cause a big problems for Yarrbears.
Going to lowsec to shoot someone ocassionally and then going back to hisec to farm / trade whatever will be very risky for them.
That's too bad cuz people needs a place for getting started their PvP experience and this change will not encourage them to do it .
So in long term this will cause less people will go to lowsec for pew and those who will decide to do it will be less experienced.


I'm not so sure about this. Sure the kill rights can be traded, but its only valid for 15 mins. Once your suspect flag gets tripped you will get a flag appearing, and no doubt an accompanying notification. Unless you are unfortunate enough to be near a bunch of insta-lockers you should be able to escape and either bounce safe spots, or some such until the flag has expired. Once this has happened that kill right is wiped.

Remember the crimewatch changes will mean that kill rights will only be given out for kills in high-sec and pod kills in low-sec. I can't see this disuading people from piracy in low-sec.
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#797 - 2012-10-15 16:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Adriel Malakai wrote:
I haven't had the chance to read the entire thread, but have gone through and read the DEV posts. One thing I haven't seen you guys respond to is the idea to give the target of a kill right being activated a short warning before LAWLGANKED.

Specifically, I'm thinking a timer that shows up telling them they have X seconds until they go suspect because a kill right was activated against them. Even if it was short, say 10-30 seconds, it at least a) informs them they're going suspect because of a kill right being activated, not some magic wonder bug, and b) it gives the target a fighting chance before the entire system opens up on them.

Personally, I'd rather see buying kill rights open up a LE between the buyer and the target, and to allow everyone to buy the kill rights simultaneously. That way, if you want to be a badass that hunts down mean people with kill rights, you have to actually stand your ground rather than call in the whole world (ie Jita).

Any dev thoughts on this?


Without a nerf to warp core stab's, this would make engagements irrelevant as pirates would fly small ships with them exclusively. Its too easy to make an un pointable ship for 1v1's and just LOL off all suspect timers and warp around a system till it clears.

Or you just stay farrrr away from HIC's
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#798 - 2012-10-15 16:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Esker Sheep wrote:
I'm not so sure about this. Sure the kill rights can be traded, but its only valid for 15 mins. Once your suspect flag gets tripped you will get a flag appearing, and no doubt an accompanying notification. Unless you are unfortunate enough to be near a bunch of insta-lockers you should be able to escape and either bounce safe spots, or some such until the flag has expired. Once this has happened that kill right is wiped.

No, the kill right remains so someone can do it again. The kill right only expires when your ship explodes while you are suspect flagged from a kill right being activated.

Interesting. Does the system make that distinction or will any ship death during any Suspect flagging remove the kill right?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#799 - 2012-10-15 16:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Lord Zim wrote:
[quote=Gris X]
I'm going to just stop you right there. If you're in the position to "aquire a killright from someone else", that "killright" is publically available. Which means that if someone had a killright on me, which they put up for public activation, then I can activate it at my own choosing.



What you are not realizing is it will be conventional to price your kill right somewhere in the realm of what I lost when you ganked me in order to generate that right.

If you want to pay me the money back (or anyone else does for that matter) you made me lose (after insurance), just to clear your name so people won't hunt you, then thats fine.

We get to call it even then.

Understand?
Anselm Cenobite
Gold Ring Enterprises
#800 - 2012-10-15 18:31:23 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
I have a very specific technical question regarding payout tiers on ranked bounties:

Say you have an evil pirate in a terrible pirate corp which is in turn a member of some awful pirate alliance. The player has a middling-range bounty, not particularly ranked very high; the corporation and alliance, however, are both ranked very highly on the bounty scales. You've stated before that the more specific bounty pays out first, but you haven't stated anything about how this applies when the more specific bounty is geared to pay out less than the more general one.

If the alliance is ranked in 1st for highest bounty and the corporation is ranked 10th, will killing this pirate only award the base amount from his specific pool? Will it award the 1st place bonus amount from his specific pool? Or will it award the base amount from his specific pool, with the difference up to the 10th place bonus from the corp bounty pool and the difference again up to the 1st place bonus from the alliance bounty pool?


[Another Dude wrote]I "think" at the moment is that the payout first comes from the more "personal" bounty amount (in the case of a personal and corp bounty being on the same person). Remember, payout is based on the value of what is destroyed... the actual bounty amount is only the size of the pool the money comes from. I would imagine any bonus would depend on what "pool" the money was coming from.



Hmm. That seems to me a potential loophole. If the "personal" bounty amount on the individual pilot always pays out before the "corp bounty" or "alliance bounty" does, could a guy who has a small "personal/individual" bounty on his head and a whopping huge "corp/alliance" bounty on his corp or alliance defer the bigger reward for the corp/alliance bounty by using an alt to continuously place small individual / personal bounties on his own head?

I.e., if the corp/alliance bounty was worth 100 billion isk (hypothetically), and the individual bounty was 5 million isk, and the 5-million individual bounty has to be paid first before dipping into the "less personal" alliance/corp bounty, could his alt keep putting strings of 5 million-isk bounties on the main character's head so that if he is ganked, the pay-out is initially limited to 5 million, but the bigger 100 billion will not become available until the next time he's killed? That would give him a chance once he's podded to log on the alt and renew the 5 million isk bounty, unless CCP specifically sets the payment up in such a way that the reward for the persona/individual bounty "spills over" into the alliance/corp bounty on a single kill, rather than the later bounty not activating until the next kill after the first is paid off.