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Please CCP leave HML`salone or take on the responsability you started.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-09-20 03:04:02 UTC
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-20 03:10:21 UTC
I don't get the comparisons with medium rails and beams. It'll just be making 3 of the 4 LR weapons equally useless. I don't see a sudden spike in eagle sales because HML's get nerfed.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#23 - 2012-09-20 03:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Smabs wrote:
I don't get the comparisons with medium rails and beams. It'll just be making 3 of the 4 LR weapons equally useless. I don't see a sudden spike in eagle sales because HML's get nerfed.

That's because all medium-gun railgun platforms (Moa, Eagle, Ferox) are somewhat misconceived. Why they get a tank bonus is a mystery, and no decent damage bonus results in ****-poor damage at range. They also begin to suffer from on-grid warp distance limits (especially the Eagle), since sniping from 120+ km is useless when the enemy can warp almost on top of you immediately if they get probes on you.

So, no, you won't see a sudden spike in Eagle sales, but there may be a rise in Zealot and Muninn sales (which are not bad because of other reasons). Also even that won't happen yet, since most of the Eve community is oblivious to changes until they happen because they don't read forums, changelogs, or check SiSi.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-09-20 03:29:16 UTC
You'll see more munins for sure.

Probably not so much zealots outside of those big ahac fleets.

Nobody is going to fly LR harbingers, feroxes or brutixes.

The problem is that in a small to mid size gang it's generally better to use a tier 3 bc with short range guns, than a tier 2 with long range (munins and arty canes being the exception).

So for instance the oracle with megapulse can hit 45 + 10 with no tracking mods. An armor oracle with 2 TC can hit to 58 + 16. A shield tanked one with 2 TE has the same range. Equally an 800mm nado has 42-52km range at falloff depending on how many tracking enhancers are on it. Same goes for a talos with null - it'll hit hard right out to 50 or 60km with really good tracking. Neutron naga goes out to about 45. All of these ships are mobile, hard hitting and can track anything bigger than a frigate quite well, especially if they have web support.

Wardeneo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-10-12 17:14:53 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
What is all this fuss about?

Diapara wrote:
This is the best part of the great CCP "rebalancing" efforts - Tasty carebear tears.



Seems pretty accurate to me.


This! ^^

In honest opinion all the care bears are over reacting! It won't make missile ships useless, just more inline with other systems.

And to all you tengu pilots (including myself) - u have to admit its a little overpowered compared to other ones - don't get me wrong I love using mine and spamming 5-600 DPS at 92km with my skills is abit overpowered ^^

All in all I welcome this change - and the whole TD affecting missiles is just gonna make missile pilots adapt more like turret based ship pilots have too ^^

-Wardeneo-
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-12 18:30:31 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The thing that amazes me is how people always claim that their race is somehow precluded from PVP due to ****** game mechanics that always stack up against them. They say that you can't PVP in a missile ship, yet I do so regularly. I still have 2x as many kills in Drakes as I do in all other ships combined - and every single one of those is solo/small gang.

Furthermore, with the TE/TC changes incoming I'm fairly confident that missiles will be better in PVP than ever before. Yeah, so you won't be able to use a long range weapons system like it's short range, but that's a good thing.

-Liang


Liang, you are simply too good for these forums, always bringing logic and rationale to the discussion. I will bake some cookies in your honor! Big smile
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#27 - 2012-10-12 19:09:20 UTC
Wardeneo wrote:

And to all you tengu pilots (including myself) - u have to admit its a little overpowered compared to other ones - don't get me wrong I love using mine and spamming 5-600 DPS at 92km with my skills is a bit overpowered


Future HAM Tengu can do a smootle under 700 DPS at ~70 km (with 5% implants).

You can probably get a better combination of range and damage, I just EFTed it in response to some bear whining that since the Tengu could no longer do about 700 DPS at 70 km, it would be USELESS!
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#28 - 2012-10-12 19:59:53 UTC
Kail Storm wrote:

Your gonna **** off alot of subscribers with this.

Do you have boobs?

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#29 - 2012-10-12 20:38:35 UTC
Judging by the outcry...FOTM will be changing again here soon.

HA!
chris elliot
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#30 - 2012-10-13 14:51:29 UTC
Diapara wrote:
This is the best part of the great CCP "rebalancing" efforts - Tasty carebear tears.



I have multiple tanker trucks full of carebear tears that will power my spaceships for many many many months off this update alone.

In fact, I almost have enough tears to take a gamble at using them as an alternative fuel to solve the worlds energy crisis.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#31 - 2012-10-13 15:46:05 UTC
I started writing my opinion about the whole thing in here. Than i read it again, deleted it and rewrote it. Then i read it again, deleted it and will just start going for a Golem on my Mission-Running alt. :)
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#32 - 2012-10-13 16:58:25 UTC
AoE damage on all missile types!!!!
OT Smithers
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#33 - 2012-10-14 15:46:33 UTC
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Diapara wrote:
This is the best part of the great CCP "rebalancing" efforts - Tasty carebear tears.


Grow up d*ck. People have got a right to feel aggrieved if their favourite ship is getting spanked with the nerf bat. I'm not condoning some of the hysterical posts, but the grumpy and aggressive ones are fine.


No one outside of the dev team knows exactly how the Drake will look after the re-balancing. So, save your teeth gnashing and shirt rending for then. You've been crying all over Ships and Modules about how CCP is nerfing "your" Drake.


This is CCP. It's quite a stretch to assume they know how anything will look or work.

In any case, Caldari pilots have every right to feel angry and distrustful. How many YEARS did it take CCP to fix rockets? How many YEARS to fix Hybrids? How many YEARS have Caldari pilots been waiting for a working cruiser or battleship? Right now, when it comes to affordable combat ships, Caldari pilots have the recently improved frigates and the Drake. That's all they have left. They have thirty or so broken hulls, and they have the Drake. And CCPs priority is not fixing ANY of this Caldari hangar trash, they are just nerfing them some more.

And remember, CCP said said that they have at least two more Caldari nerfs heading their way in addition to this HM nerf: more missile nerfs in the form of TDs impacting missiles, and a nerf to ECM.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#34 - 2012-10-14 18:42:42 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
This is CCP. It's quite a stretch to assume they know how anything will look or work.

In any case, Caldari pilots have every right to feel angry and distrustful. How many YEARS did it take CCP to fix rockets? How many YEARS to fix Hybrids? How many YEARS have Caldari pilots been waiting for a working cruiser or battleship? Right now, when it comes to affordable combat ships, Caldari pilots have the recently improved frigates and the Drake. That's all they have left. They have thirty or so broken hulls, and they have the Drake. And CCPs priority is not fixing ANY of this Caldari hangar trash, they are just nerfing them some more.

And remember, CCP said said that they have at least two more Caldari nerfs heading their way in addition to this HM nerf: more missile nerfs in the form of TDs impacting missiles, and a nerf to ECM.

Wow, that's quite a lot of butthurt.

CCP, tricking the majority of it's players to roll Caldari and lap it up in pve and then turn around and impose a nerf after they've got them hooked. I'm sure it was the plan all along. You and your friends fell for it. Oh cruel world!

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#35 - 2012-10-14 21:17:14 UTC
Posting to tell people that the title reminded me of this.
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
#36 - 2012-10-14 21:51:31 UTC
HML rebalance is looking pretty good so far, 10% nerf isn't unreasonable, it will still be a great weapon system even with the delayed damage. Delay will be lower, damage projection can be improved even further on small / fast targets, HAMs will do buttsex surprise damage on short ranges and get a boost to damage projection vs small targets, no more speed nerf for Javelin and so on.

I mean really, this is overall great stuff. Right now I'm more concerned about the aggro mechanics changes and drones then I am missiles.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-10-14 22:17:54 UTC
This has nothing to do with being carebear or not, this has everything to do with the time you spended on training what.
Those with mostly missile skills and no other weapon system trained are the ones being nerfed............. that's it all.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-10-14 22:22:54 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
This has nothing to do with being carebear or not, this has everything to do with the time you spended on training what.
Those with mostly missile skills and no other weapon system trained are the ones being nerfed............. that's it all.


Wait, the idea of training multiple weapons is that foreign?
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-10-14 23:21:39 UTC
No but it isnt the same. Having gunnery skills it is easier to go to the rest 2 than from missiles. You will have the same skills to use. But then missiles needed a rework. It will equal things on pvp and to be honest i find em ok because the delay will be less. As for range... please speak to hybrid users first to see how they feel ..

Ride hard, live with passion 
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#40 - 2012-10-15 02:13:13 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
This has nothing to do with being carebear or not, this has everything to do with the time you spended on training what.
Those with mostly missile skills and no other weapon system trained are the ones being nerfed............. that's it all.


Just out of curiosity... did you actually READ the patch notes?



All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players. -- Buff

Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles -- Buff
Reduce HAM launcher PG requirements by 10% --Buff

Light Missiles
-Decrease all Light Missile Launcher fitting requirements by 2pg and 4cpu --Buff
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit) --Buff
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF. --Buff

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35% --Nerf
-Base velocity increased by 14.66% --Buff
-In total, base range reduced by ~25% --Nerf
-Damage decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit) --Nerf
-Explosion radius increased by 12%
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius) --Buff
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles --Buff
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes --Shorter range, Buffed damage
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties --Buff
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit (To be seen I guess)


It appears that ONLY the HML is being nerfed, and even that is only partially, while being buffed a bit in other areas as well (T2 specifically)

It also appears that ALL sub cap missiles will now have +25% reduced signature penalty on explosions if you have the Precision skill trained with all of your hard earned points, which is a buff is it not?



It appears to me Caldari (and Khanid Amarr, and some Minmitars) will be doing quite fine.



I would like to suggest, however, as the others above have, that you train into gunnery systems, as Caldari also has a secondary weapon system, called Hybrids. It would be nice to have the ability to use ALL of your racial weaponry. Cool


~Zyella

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
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