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New Dev Blog: ME SQUASH BUG: Improving the EVE experience

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Marisse Velahar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2011-10-17 22:20:34 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I can't make up my mind where on the creep-o-meter showing up at someone's house to rifle through their computer should be placed. It's somewhere below trying on their clothes and above peeking in their medicine cabinet.



let me narrow it down for you: It's around the same spot as going through their garbage.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#102 - 2011-10-17 22:42:35 UTC
Like Tippia, I am happy to hear that this is at least "in-lab" functional on Mac OS X. Let's see if I can still play the game after the patch Lol

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-10-17 22:47:04 UTC
Thank you for the transparency of your blog, informing us of this change. I have no problem with it, indeed, I'm glad to see you guys getting more modern with your processes.

Now keep this (this = reviewing Eve and thinking about how you do things and improving on that) up.
Solo Drakban
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#104 - 2011-10-17 23:54:57 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I can't make up my mind where on the creep-o-meter showing up at someone's house to rifle through their computer should be placed. It's somewhere below trying on their clothes and above peeking in their medicine cabinet.


That would depend on how much groping was involved pre and post rifling and would you call afterwards?
stoicfaux
#105 - 2011-10-18 00:27:21 UTC
Quote:
This shows the number of crashes per day from our main code line at CCP, generally being worked on by most of the developers (400 people).

400 developers?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Darjeedis
Dead poets society
#106 - 2011-10-18 01:49:59 UTC
Love it,

Will this be an automatic behavior? or will there be any indication that it is happening on the users end? ( I am sure it will be re-assuring to most to see this behavior )
Solo Drakban
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#107 - 2011-10-18 02:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Solo Drakban
Darjeedis wrote:
Love it,

Will this be an automatic behavior? or will there be any indication that it is happening on the users end? ( I am sure it will be re-assuring to most to see this behavior )



I'm sorry, did you miss the 6 pages of conversation surrounding this?

Here's a tl;dr for you:

  • At launch (tomorrow) it will more than likely be mandatory and automated.
  • CCP will patch it in the future to make it 'opt in'
  • If you want to 'opt out' currently you will need to block traffic to 'crashes.eveonline.com'
  • CCP may add the ability to review what's being sent to them, this is up in the air.
  • The dump is written out to your cache directory if you wanted to go digging.
  • Sreegs has an open invitation to crash on my couch and rifle through my computer.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2011-10-18 02:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
Now that you mention it EVE used to close her socket to me every so often and that was why I shied from wormholes. These days the most that happens is a black screen that says "EVE not responding" but after 5 or 6 seconds the game loads normally. If this is an example what CCP is doing investigating and fixing the cause of crashes, keep on doing it. It is working and has saved the life of many tech 2 Hammerheads who also extend their grateful greetings.
Amy Garzan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2011-10-18 02:25:41 UTC
This is a long time coming. And Im glad it finally was implemented.
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#110 - 2011-10-18 02:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Luckytania
Addergebroed wrote:
CCP Redundancy wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Solo Drakban makes a good point - is mandatory reporting being patched out before release, or in winter expansion 1.1


In the short term, if you're worried about this feature then the best workaround would be to block your computer from accessing http://crashes.eveonline.com

This won't cause any issues with Eve, but it will mean that we won't be able to see and fix your crashes.


Why on earth would you not want to help CCP to fix crashes?

Companies have lied before about what data is being collected in these types of "it is all benign data, trust us" transmissions. Either for nefarious reasons or, more often, due to mistakes.

*After* I verify the contents of these data dumps I'll be happy to allow their submission.

Trust, but verify. <-- If it is good enough for nuclear weapon treaties it is good enough for personally identifiable information (PII) protection.


I'll unblock it at the DNS server for this house after I see what is being gathered and transmitted.
Until then:
$ nslookup crashes.eveonline.com
Server: 10.31.1.13
Address: 10.31.1.13#53

** server can't find crashes.eveonline.com: NXDOMAIN
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#111 - 2011-10-18 02:58:55 UTC
Luckytania wrote:
CCP Redundancy wrote:
In the short term, if you're worried about this feature then the best workaround would be to block your computer from accessing http://crashes.eveonline.com

Companies have lied before about what data is being collected in these types of "it is all benign data, trust us" transmissions. Either for nefarious reasons or, more often, due to mistakes.

*After* I verify the contents of these data dumps I'll be happy to allow their submission.

Trust, but verify. <-- If it is good enough for nuclear weapon treaties it is good enough for personally identifiable information (PII) protection.


I'll unblock it at the DNS server for this house after I see what is being gathered and transmitted.
Until then:
$ nslookup crashes.eveonline.com
Server: 10.11.1.3
Address: 10.11.1.3#53

** server can't find crashes.eveonline.com: NXDOMAIN

On another note, I applaud CCP Redundancy / CCP for creating this tool. And especially Redundancy for quickly responding with useful information.

However, CCP just still has a ways to go about communicating with their user base. (And it is a user base of a commercial product.)

I've seen and used lots of these types things over the years. The following would have been a far more professional and respectful way to announce and implement:

1) Announce well ahead of the implementation date for changes to an existing product. (In EULA is fine for new products. Is there already text in the Eve Online EULA about pulling non-game data from a user's machine?)

2) Explicitly identify the data types being collected and transmitted during the dump. Ideally, present the actual data collected for user approval prior to each transmission.

3) Ideally make it opt-in to begin with. Or, make it clear where the disable option is set when the announcement of deployment is made.
Bombay Door
Aktaeon Industries
#112 - 2011-10-18 03:03:39 UTC
So does this mean that the logs will finally show something now? Lol

Also, +1 for the ninja injection detection system! Cool
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#113 - 2011-10-18 03:06:28 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
The old adage of if you have nothing to hide with the eve client why worry.

I want to quash this argument right at the beginning. Everybody has something to hide. Maybe not in the EVE client, but that's why people want to check what data is actually being transmitted. It's not your business to know whether I have a **** site open in my browser, or if I'm watching a live stream of Bill O'Reilly.

Or even accessing John Birch Society or Communist Party of America information sources. (Pick your poison.)

Ultimately, unlimited data always gets abused. And not necessarily at the first point of contact / collection.
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#114 - 2011-10-18 03:24:52 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Solo Drakban wrote:


Actually, no, that's not what has us 'all jittery'. I'm fine with CCP getting a list of all my running applications (as I have said before), injected into EVE or not, so long as they are up-front about it (hell, Sreegs is welcome to show up at my place unannounced, crash on my couch and go through my computer himself looking for bots) so I can make the decision as to what applications to run at the same time as EVE. I also want the chance to review what they are sending as they currently have some ground to cover to regain my full trust in their statements.

It's all about informed consent balancing against the need for privacy.


We are not currently doing anything to enumerate any applications. All that we're retrieving is crash dumps from the EVE Online client which are limited to our own process space.

I can't make up my mind where on the creep-o-meter showing up at someone's house to rifle through their computer should be placed. It's somewhere below trying on their clothes and above peeking in their medicine cabinet.

[emphasis added to Sreegs post]
My posts above were made before reading the entire thread. One should always read the entire thread before posting. How many of us always do so. Ugh

Regardless, some of what I said is still relevant. Basically the issues of "at-will" on day one, the user's ability to verify that data collection is not going beyond stated parameters and some refinements of communication.
Malus Rimor
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-10-18 06:54:58 UTC
EVE needs better disconnect handling/error reporting.
I disconnect fairly often and I am not sure why. Everything else I use online is fine. Steam, Mumble, web pages, everything. Perhaps give the client a second or two and try to reconnect without dumping the whole game? Its very annoying as two of my accounts are Gallente/drone loving toons.
Atmega
Men in space
#116 - 2011-10-18 07:57:27 UTC
Which ports should i allow in firewall for this feature?
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#117 - 2011-10-18 08:15:26 UTC
Solo Drakban wrote:

So yes, I do have things to hide, but they aren't related to EVE online, and what I'm hiding is, quite frankly, should be of no concern to you, CCP or any other entity that does crash reporting.


Yeah my boss at the CIA Max's flower shop now tells me I can't play EVE anymore :(. Back to analysing Khadaffi's secrets stash of chemical weapons hortensias without mining ice in the background :(.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#118 - 2011-10-18 11:47:02 UTC
400...? people and you still cant design a caldari spaceship or a decent ui? let alone prevent disasters like the new, and 100% identical gun icons?

Just wondering - does the new gadget u invented reduce input lagg on designer brains?

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Mark Onzolov
Revolution in Perfektion
#119 - 2011-10-18 11:53:45 UTC
Yeah,

best idea since Incarna :)

Thanks a lot !

Regards
Mark
Didona Carpenito
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#120 - 2011-10-18 12:57:29 UTC
Solo Drakban wrote:
Darjeedis wrote:
Love it,

Will this be an automatic behavior? or will there be any indication that it is happening on the users end? ( I am sure it will be re-assuring to most to see this behavior )



I'm sorry, did you miss the 6 pages of conversation surrounding this?

Here's a tl;dr for you:
[list]
  • At launch (tomorrow) it will more than likely be mandatory and automated.
  • CCP will patch it in the future to make it 'opt in'
  • If you want to 'opt out' currently you will need to block traffic to 'crashes.eveonline.com'
  • CCP may add the ability to review what's being sent to them, this is up in the air.
  • The dump is written out to your cache directory if you wanted to go digging.
  • Sreegs has an open invitation to crash on my couch and rifle through my computer.
    • [/list]



    Sreegs will not be coming to your Goon trap, like a noob.