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[Proposal] Re balance Gravimetric Complexes

Author
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#1 - 2012-10-07 07:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
For industry pilots out in the cold dark zero zero... Getting access to Trit, Pye, Mex in null sec is overly difficult because the lack of it in Grav sites and the fact that corps are rarely given access to large patches of 0.0 systems where they can freely roam systems and mine asteroid belts, unlike empire space.

On the flip side... Grav sites yield an over abundance of Nocxium Zydrine and Megacyte ores even at the lowest index levels. This is partly intended so that their is a flow of null sec mined minerals to empire, but with Industry Indexes, a change in loot tables, and the growth of 0.0... thousands of systems with poor belts now have access to an unlimited supply of high end minerals and no realistic way to make use of them. All these 0.0 minerals go to the only system that can support their sale, Jita.

Along with flooding the Jita market with high ends, most null sec industry corps & alliances buy low ends from the same market in bulk and do what is called mineral compression. This pulls billions of low end minerals off the Jita market and converts them to meta 0 mods to then be shipped to null sec. When this is done on a large scale this puts stress on the market hub and leads to large movements in mineral prices.

My proposal is...
A re-balance of the contents of these complexes in order to make 0.0 production less difficult, make ore\minerals that were once considered rare more difficult to access and profitable, at the same time bring mining up to par with recent changes to anomalies where pilots making the most ISK are at the greatest risk, thus increasing PvP in EvE.

First, re-balancing to to make production easier...
First of all let me explain that I am going to be using the Drakes as a analog of the common T1 build-able item so gravimetric complexes and my changes to them can be compared to each other. Now to the complexes themselves.

Small Gravimetric sites are the easiest to attain and maintain yet they can't support production at all and are overstocked with way more high ends then can be used. You can not build 2 drakes off of the 8 Million m3 in this site.

My proposal to change the small site in a way that makes it a key site for all pilots wanting to do production in null sec. In order to do that it needs a change in it's current contents. This also helps to conquer my second goal of making ABC ores and their minerals more difficult to attain and more profitable. A modified small would drop from 8 Million M3 to a total of 5.5 Million and minerals in the right ratio that 20 Drakes can be made. It takes 15,000 Arkonor, 25,000 Bistot, and 15,000 Crokite out of circulation for all index level 1 systems just for starters. When comparing the current small at 870M ISK for 8 Million M3 and the modified small at 5.5 Million m3 and worth 1006M ISK, one would hardly miss the high end minerals at all. Future outlook - If the minerals drop to Nov. 2010 levels this site would be worth approximately 600M.

Below is a list of the asteroids that would be found in the Small Gravimetric Complex in units.
Veldspar - 9,000,000
Scordite - 7,000,000
Pyroxeres - 2,500,000
Plagioclase - 3,500,000
Omber - 125,000
Kernite - 175,000
Jaspet - 100,000
Hemorphite - 65,000
Hedbergite - 65,000
Gneiss - 30,000
Dark Ochre - 35,000
Crokite - 10,000
Bistot - 5,000
Arkonor - 5,000


Second, Make rare minerals rare again...
We have already taken a huge chunks of high end ores out of the system by modifying the most basic Gravimetric complex and reducing its yield of high end minerals it offers. Here is where we slowly put it back in, but do it at a ratio that means less of an extreme over abundance as before and allowing each site to yield reasonable amounts of low end minerals to support it's use in T1 production locally. What we should end up with is an overall reduction in high end minerals that can be achieved but a larger potential for profit with corps that can maintain high index levels and build off the minerals they mine.

Third, Put PvP back in 0.0 and increase the risk for miners...
Corps and alliances willing to upgrade the index to 4 & 5, do large scale production, and produce large amounts of high end minerals will literally be placing themselves on the map. Maps used by PvP corps and alliances that roam 0.0 looking for Index levels and systems showing large activity.

In the End?

What does this do for the industrialist...
Players wanting to build in 0.0 will have better access to low end minerals. An ability to seed 0.0 markets with items mined, refined, and built locally.

What it does for the ISK miners...
Miners will be driven like never before to increase index levels to access ores that are once again considered rare and valuable, but currently over mined and worthless, being accessible to anyone with a Hulk and Ore Prospecting Array I.

What it does for PvP in 0.0...
As the changes made in the past in sov levels used to limit anomalies availability shifted pilots in to smaller spaces, ISK miners wanting to earn the highest amount of ISK possible will be interested in upgrading indexes beyond level 1-2-3 and turning themselves into targets for roaming fleets. The pure industrialists only interested in actual production will be less effected.
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#2 - 2012-10-12 05:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
November 2010 Mineral Values:
Tritanium 2.85
Pyerite 6.95
Mexallon 28.82
Isogen 54.50
Nocxium 87.77
Zydrine 1,276.35
Megacyte 2,445.00

October 2012 Mineral Values
Tritanium: 6.10 - (53% higher)
Pyerite: 12.27 - (43% higher)
Mexallon: 60.84 - (53% higher)
Isogen: 119.96 - (55% higher)
Nocxium: 631.11 - (86% higher)
Zydrine: 631.63 - (51% Lower)
Megacyte: 1900.43 - (22% Lower)

This is an imbalance in the game that needs to be dealt with...
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#3 - 2012-10-12 05:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
Aspects of Development time needed? No art, no game mechanics, no new aspect to the game that needs to be player tested.

The same team assembled that has been adding additional new anomalies and updating agent missions could handle the changes in Gravimetric complexes.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#4 - 2012-10-12 07:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Mos7Wan7ed wrote:

Nocxium: 631.11
Zydrine: 631.63


Are these mineral values correct CCP, If so then the Info sheet on Zydrine needs to be changed.

Zydrine wrote:
Only found in huge geodes; rocks on the outside with crystal-like quartz on the inside. The rarest and most precious of these geodes are those that contain the dark green zydrine within. Very rare and very expensive.


Zydrine is now as common and available as Nocxium witch in itself is seven times less common then it used to be.



Jetcan of Veldspar: 5,009,609
Jetcan of Bistot: 4,622,106


It looks like the info sheet on Bistot also needs some rewording.

Bistot wrote:
Bistot is a very valuable ore as it holds large portions of two of the rarest minerals in the universe, megacyte and zydrine. The portion size for refining is 200 ore units.


Bistot (only available in -0.5 and below is LESS valuable then what comes from Veldspar available in every asteroid belt in over 5,000+ solar systems.

This is a predictible result of the barge buff, as the same deflationary tool set available to high-sec miners is available to null-sec miners as well. Because Value = Demand / Supply, it stands to reason that there needs to be a mechanism to limit the uptake of minerals. I do not believe that in light of the current exhumer yield and hit points that such a mechanism currently exists in either null-sec or high-sec.

In a sense I support a rebalancing of some sort, but until the deflationary mechanism itself is addressed by adding considerable new risk to miners in both high-sec and null-sec, I see a rebalance as a 'band-aid" solution at best. Inevitably every mineral and ice product in the game will be deflated to a point approaching its floor. Like locusts, miners will consume resources and glut the market until the resources are worth nothing and then move on completely unhindered to the next victims. This will happen in high-sec and null-sec alike because there is insufficient risk to miners in either locale.

This is not a partisan issue. This all comes down to value and ease of acquisition.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#5 - 2012-10-14 04:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
Darth Gustav wrote:

This is a predictible result of the barge buff, as the same deflationary tool set available to high-sec miners is available to null-sec miners as well. Because Value = Demand / Supply, it stands to reason that there needs to be a mechanism to limit the uptake of minerals. I do not believe that in light of the current exhumer yield and hit points that such a mechanism currently exists in either null-sec or high-sec.

In a sense I support a rebalancing of some sort, but until the deflationary mechanism itself is addressed by adding considerable new risk to miners in both high-sec and null-sec, I see a rebalance as a 'band-aid" solution at best. Inevitably every mineral and ice product in the game will be deflated to a point approaching its floor. Like locusts, miners will consume resources and glut the market until the resources are worth nothing and then move on completely unhindered to the next victims. This will happen in high-sec and null-sec alike because there is insufficient risk to miners in either locale.

This is not a partisan issue. This all comes down to value and ease of acquisition.


Buff to barges have absolutely nothing to do with any of this at all...
The market change I speak of has happened slowly over two years and not over night or post patch. Also, the Hulk saw no increase in yield so no increase in it's ability to pull rocks out of a belt or Gravimetric site. So, you can scratch that idea off the board.

Value = Demand / Supply
I agree that the free market should be allowed to do what it is supposed to do, but not to a point it breaks game-play or the overall balance to the game itself. CCP's interest in balancing Risk verse Reward and the pure in-ability to do T1 production in 0.0 are problems that needs to be solved.

My proposal
- Reduces the quantity of high end minerals available
- Increased difficulty to access those minerals
- Gives us a way to make use of it where it is mined so less gets shipped to empire
- Increases the risk of ISK mining.

The Locusts effect is not a industry thing. Some MMO players will go to where they can earn the highest income for least time spent, and will follow that until it crosses a risk vers reward threshold that has too much risk for what they are comfortable. Pilots out in null are willing to take that risk but the reward has fallen to a point where it is left to question the ISK for time spent aspect. The only reason for this issue is the design of the complexes created in Dominion.

Another thing CCP and players not interested in mining\industry normally overlook...
Not every Hulk pilot is only interested in earning ISK. Out of the 0.0 corps I have been in through the years, most pilots would enjoy the chance to build, supply a market, to support the corp and alliance they are in and not just be ISK farmers that need to buy ships and fits from Jita.
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#6 - 2012-10-14 04:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
.
RoAnnon
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-10-17 15:41:17 UTC
The info sheets shouldn't reference value or price of the minerals at all, even in general abstractions, as those are set by the market.

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Tobiaz
Spacerats
#8 - 2012-10-18 00:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Any change to the availability of minerals in null should be combined with a big increase of fuel consumption by jump mechanics, especially Jump Freighters and Bridge Networks and Titan Bridges.

It adjoins null and empire at the hip logistically and economically for almost no risk, negligible cost and very little effort. This is one of the most important causes of why null is 'empty', because it simply isn't stimulated to cultivated their own systems with mining and production. Why would you, if you can simply get it from empire?

It's also the main reason why the drone-poo actually became a problem. Not because it was so easy to get minerals in the Drone Regions. That was actually a great thing, a breeding ground for capital-heavy alliances, migrating to the west looking for better moons and anoms like some Mongol horde (only to be replaced a year later by the next horde that took over their region when they left).

Sadly, due to Jump Freighters mostly, all those cheap minerals were mostly dumped onto the empire market instead, putting all miners except bots out of business. And sadly a lot of that ISK then likely vanished into RMT.

But any change to the availability of low-ends in null will likely be moot, as long as it remains safer, cheaper and easier to buy them in Empire. And if you improve mining in null too much, it'll just be the Drone Regions all over again.

So fine, change the roids, but increase the fuel consumption of jump mechanics substantially as well. Sure the prices will go up for the null-bears, but that will be a good incentive to actually develop claimed systems and populate them with renters to mine for you. It will also stop massive NAP-trains from curb-stomping alliances on the other side of the galaxy, keeping null population culled.

That will definitely improve null vitality.

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Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#9 - 2012-10-21 04:23:22 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Any change to the availability of minerals in null should be combined with a big increase of fuel consumption by jump mechanics, especially Jump Freighters and Bridge Networks and Titan Bridges.

It adjoins null and empire at the hip logistically and economically for almost no risk, negligible cost and very little effort. This is one of the most important causes of why null is 'empty', because it simply isn't stimulated to cultivated their own systems with mining and production. Why would you, if you can simply get it from empire?

It's also the main reason why the drone-poo actually became a problem. Not because it was so easy to get minerals in the Drone Regions. That was actually a great thing, a breeding ground for capital-heavy alliances, migrating to the west looking for better moons and anoms like some Mongol horde (only to be replaced a year later by the next horde that took over their region when they left).

Sadly, due to Jump Freighters mostly, all those cheap minerals were mostly dumped onto the empire market instead, putting all miners except bots out of business. And sadly a lot of that ISK then likely vanished into RMT.

But any change to the availability of low-ends in null will likely be moot, as long as it remains safer, cheaper and easier to buy them in Empire. And if you improve mining in null too much, it'll just be the Drone Regions all over again.

So fine, change the roids, but increase the fuel consumption of jump mechanics substantially as well. Sure the prices will go up for the null-bears, but that will be a good incentive to actually develop claimed systems and populate them with renters to mine for you. It will also stop massive NAP-trains from curb-stomping alliances on the other side of the galaxy, keeping null population culled.

That will definitely improve null vitality.


this proposal is not gear'ed towards issues you have brought up.
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#10 - 2012-10-21 21:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
RoAnnon wrote:
The info sheets shouldn't reference value or price of the minerals at all, even in general abstractions, as those are set by the market.


You're correct that they are general abstractions that are based on the assumption that what is hard to find should be considered valuable.
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#11 - 2012-10-22 16:31:15 UTC
Arrow
Devon Krah'tor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-10-26 18:34:03 UTC
Mos7Wan7ed wrote:
Arrow



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