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Ship manufacturing costs are seriously wrong to my opinion
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-10-11 21:40:21 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Seriously dude, take a break. Get some fresh air, take a beer, read a book, listen some music and get back in a couple weeks.

It takes you a few weeks to drink a beer??? Shocked



That would be slow Lol

But took me a couple seconds to figure out someone stock billions (if not trillions) of isk in minerals and is now crying by all means and use/abuse "bot" words all around the place because prices are getting competitive.

Bad choices are bad.

brb
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#42 - 2012-10-11 21:55:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pod pilots arn't normal people.


Compared to dirty planetary money, 1 ISK is worth a few million IIRC To the Lore

so ships should cost what they do

don't be butthurt OP

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#43 - 2012-10-11 22:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Egnald Oskold wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
How did you come up with that 12 plex poverty line?

Randomly pulled it out of your arse?

I thought so...


Think again. You need 12 PLEX annually to be able to login. Period.
You can't do (almost) anything else if you have *just* 12 PLEX annually.

You have free ships though, but that's un-capitalistic too; there should be no F-word in this game (as there's no IRL).



That's why you can't compare Eve to RL. I never bought Plex to sub any of my accounts (except incarnage days, where I thought that eve is as good as dead) just as I never sold Plex to buff them - that's just a personal rule.

I spend the equivalent of 2 Plex/day just on food, drink and smoke, so funding my accounts with real money is a no-brainer.

Noone but a someone having his account paid by his alliance, a lazy college kid, someone living in a third world country, a roleplayer or a complete failure in life would do such a thing.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Egnald Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-10-11 22:34:37 UTC
lanyaie wrote:
You're saying the big alliances should control the market and make the price of ships sit at 100m for a bc?

You are comparing eve to real life?



Your post is invalid after comparing those 2.


1. I'm saying that a frig should cost more like 6,000,000,000 ISK. How do I get this? Again, T1 frig is EvE's Toyota Corolla that you can get in the US for roughly the money that is the Census Bureau sets as a poverty line. This is not the law, this is just a coincidence. Now. EvE's poverty line is 12 PLEX, that now you can get for roughly 500 millions. 12 * 500m gets you 6 billions. THAT is your Toyota Corolla.

2. EvE's economy IS real. Read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/28/the-economics-of-video-games/
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-10-11 22:35:43 UTC
Egnald Oskold wrote:
lanyaie wrote:
You're saying the big alliances should control the market and make the price of ships sit at 100m for a bc?

You are comparing eve to real life?



Your post is invalid after comparing those 2.


1. I'm saying that a frig should cost more like 6,000,000,000 ISK. How do I get this? Again, T1 frig is EvE's Toyota Corolla that you can get in the US for roughly the money that is the Census Bureau sets as a poverty line. This is not the law, this is just a coincidence. Now. EvE's poverty line is 12 PLEX, that now you can get for roughly 500 millions. 12 * 500m gets you 6 billions. THAT is your Toyota Corolla.

2. EvE's economy IS real. Read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/28/the-economics-of-video-games/


Seek therapy.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Egnald Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-10-11 22:39:32 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Seriously dude, take a break. Get some fresh air, take a beer, read a book, listen some music and get back in a couple weeks.

It takes you a few weeks to drink a beer??? Shocked



That would be slow Lol

But took me a couple seconds to figure out someone stock billions (if not trillions) of isk in minerals and is now crying by all means and use/abuse "bot" words all around the place because prices are getting competitive.

Bad choices are bad.


Wrong. I don't have stocks of billions/trillions of minerals. This is just a general discussion.

Check this, my assets + balance.

1390981 3HdjW7s5Kk8kZmvcSUQVmP1nMppanez5aPtMBTAis5pGMqibPeDlLwIukdHQBNBJ
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#47 - 2012-10-11 22:44:19 UTC
Interestingly enough, I found the opposite problem OP.

With a few exceptions it was always a better move to look at the BPO in the market, go gather everything needed to make that ship, then take it to Jita and sell it, buy the ship and keep a surplus. Competing with the mega builders was always all but impossible I found.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-10-11 22:48:14 UTC
Egnald Oskold wrote:
My 2c.

Ship manufacturing is seriously un-capitalistic in EvE. Look, everyone can manufacture the spaceships, while IRL that's multi-billion dollar business.
Basically, any jerk with a few millions in his pocket (and some spare time to research BPO+pimp his Production Efficiency) can compete with the large corporations (I mean - big and rich alliances) in the area. This is like IRL situation when mom-and-pap business make Toyota Corollas in the garage. This shouldn't take place in EvE. Let's make some parallels.

1. Take 12 PLEX as a poverty line; that's pretty accurate analogy to the real-life, you can survive but you can't do anything with that money. This is about 6,000 millions ISK (500m per PLEX).
2. US poverty guideline, for 2011 (here) it is $11,484,00 USD/yr.
3. Think about it, 11G is about the cheapest new car you can get in the US. Everything better is extra.

Now, for about the same price ANYONE can make this car^H ship. That's a fundamental flaw, the cost to make any ship must be substantially higher than this, look. Take one small car maker, like Suzuki. Not the big one, not the best one either.

Total assets of this company IRL sums up to US$26.84 billion, which adds up to 27168228 PLEX.

Yes, 27 million PLEXes just to get to the business. Do the math.

Bottomline: ONLY richest alliances should be able to manufacture ships (or basically any items) in EvE. There must be NO public manufacturing slots ever, this all belongs to POS and POS only.


missing a monocle.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Ignatius Leopardi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-10-12 01:53:50 UTC
The Dissident wrote:
I agree with this wholeheartedly, but lets expand it to only people that can actually fly spaceships in real life can pilot ships. Let's make Eve as realistic as possible here folks.


How is such a thing realistic?

There is no RL evidence that I'm aware of that shipyard owners, iron workers, or marine architects can pilot the ships they build.

There is no need to make such a move here.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#50 - 2012-10-12 02:17:42 UTC
Egnald Oskold wrote:
Lots of crazy stuff



NickYo, is that you?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Darius Ybar
Midnight Mulisha
#51 - 2012-10-12 02:47:25 UTC
Egnald Oskold wrote:
lanyaie wrote:
You're saying the big alliances should control the market and make the price of ships sit at 100m for a bc?

You are comparing eve to real life?



Your post is invalid after comparing those 2.


1. I'm saying that a frig should cost more like 6,000,000,000 ISK. How do I get this? Again, T1 frig is EvE's Toyota Corolla that you can get in the US for roughly the money that is the Census Bureau sets as a poverty line. This is not the law, this is just a coincidence. Now. EvE's poverty line is 12 PLEX, that now you can get for roughly 500 millions. 12 * 500m gets you 6 billions. THAT is your Toyota Corolla.

2. EvE's economy IS real. Read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/28/the-economics-of-video-games/


Dude, crawl out of the basement and take a deep breath.

This thread and your OP is nonsense.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2012-10-12 03:13:55 UTC
I understand that drowning is one of the worst ends you can ever face, that is how I now picture OP's flailing as he struggles to make sense.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Egnald Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-10-12 03:31:13 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Egnald Oskold wrote:
Lots of crazy stuff



NickYo, is that you?


No; I'm new to this community.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#54 - 2012-10-12 04:43:18 UTC
Egnald Oskold wrote:
My 2c.

Ship manufacturing is seriously un-capitalistic in EvE. Look, everyone can manufacture the spaceships, while IRL that's multi-billion dollar business.
Basically, any jerk with a few millions in his pocket (and some spare time to research BPO+pimp his Production Efficiency) can compete with the large corporations (I mean - big and rich alliances) in the area. This is like IRL situation when mom-and-pap business make Toyota Corollas in the garage. This shouldn't take place in EvE. Let's make some parallels.

1. Take 12 PLEX as a poverty line; that's pretty accurate analogy to the real-life, you can survive but you can't do anything with that money. This is about 6,000 millions ISK (500m per PLEX).
2. US poverty guideline, for 2011 (here) it is $11,484,00 USD/yr.
3. Think about it, 11G is about the cheapest new car you can get in the US. Everything better is extra.

Now, for about the same price ANYONE can make this car^H ship. That's a fundamental flaw, the cost to make any ship must be substantially higher than this, look. Take one small car maker, like Suzuki. Not the big one, not the best one either.

Total assets of this company IRL sums up to US$26.84 billion, which adds up to 27168228 PLEX.

Yes, 27 million PLEXes just to get to the business. Do the math.

Bottomline: ONLY richest alliances should be able to manufacture ships (or basically any items) in EvE. There must be NO public manufacturing slots ever, this all belongs to POS and POS only.


Lol. All you need is a POS and some skills and some money and some time. So anyone can do it. Just LOL.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Egnald Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-10-12 05:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Egnald Oskold
Cipher Jones wrote:

Lol. All you need is a POS and some skills and some money and some time. So anyone can do it. Just LOL.


Exactly my point, just like in the classic capitalism, "all people are created equal". That doesn't mean that each and every person is guaranteed to succeed and make a fortune. Entering the manufacturing business must be many degrees of magnitude more expensive than it is now.

How much more? I gave you a comparison to the RL; second-tier automaker assets are equal to 27 million PLEXes in EvE (which is ain't cheap, if you buy PLEX off the official store this is US $472.5 millions or about the GDP of some third-world countries).

Current situation is more like communism with supply/demand inequality. Think about it. There's a State (CCP) that provides people with a free services (mfg slots, research slots, etc). This is AGAINST the capitalism.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#56 - 2012-10-12 06:06:03 UTC
26 plexs in poverty line? Geeez, i have no plexs. I'm entitled to your plexs, contract them to me right now. Government says so.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

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