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Faction Warfare Redesign Thread

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#141 - 2011-10-17 17:21:45 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
w.r.t NPCS: There are many current ways to keep the NPCs out of fights.
1. Warp to plex, don't go in. If you want decent fight, then burn off gate and wait. Opponent will have to burn at you and when he calls in for warp in they will warp to plex gate, not to opponent.

2. When you enter plex, don't fire on and don't go within 30km (or some varying distance based on plex size) of the plex button. In many plexes the timer won't start and the NPCs will remain in sleep mode. Perhaps this feature should apply to all plexes.

So there are some current options, but they are not universally applied across all plexes.




This goes back to the practical question of.... why?

Why bother going into a plex?

And why bother fighting for it?



We capture plexes because that is how we get occupancy for our faction? Why do we gain occupancy for our faction? Because that is the goal of faction war.

Why should you do faction war?

Well you can ask these questions of any game. The answer ultimately comes down to the game is fun, challenging, and/or being good at it is deemed meritorious by a certain community. If it is not one of these things then likely the game isn't worth playing.


So ccp needs to make faction war fun, challenging, and/or make it so being good at faction war will be deemed meritorious by the community.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#142 - 2011-10-17 17:27:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:


So ccp needs to make faction war fun, challenging, and/or make it so being good at faction war will be deemed meritorious by the community.





Yes, correct answer.

And thus I award you a strange man holding a piece of paper.

Where I am.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#143 - 2011-10-17 17:33:45 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Cearain wrote:


So ccp needs to make faction war fun, challenging, and/or make it so being good at faction war will be deemed meritorious by the community.





Yes, correct answer.

And thus I award you a strange man holding a piece of paper.



Yes!

I knew I would get something for all the time I spent in these faction war threads.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2011-10-17 17:39:33 UTC
In fact there are not really enough plexes there never seems to be the right sized plex to narrow the odds when you need it.

Regarding the NPC problem how would people feel about a further spawn of your own factions ships when a war target enters the plex or is already present, not to engage the other player but for both sides NPC’s to lock each other up and ignore the players for a time.

You would still be at a slight disadvantage if you had already engaged the NPC’s, due to lower cap and damage taken but if you had killed all the NPC’s then perhaps your faction’s ships could assist you.

May need to be a limit to the number of spawns and in no manor should the DPS be overwhelming.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#145 - 2011-10-17 22:58:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
w.r.t NPCS: There are many current ways to keep the NPCs out of fights.
1. Warp to plex, don't go in. If you want decent fight, then burn off gate and wait. Opponent will have to burn at you and when he calls in for warp in they will warp to plex gate, not to opponent.


I wasn't aware that works. Are you sure fleet warps don't work if you are near a plex accelleration gate but don't go in it?


Absolutely postive. Suicide tacklers get upset when their backup can't warp to them.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#146 - 2011-10-17 23:33:32 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
w.r.t NPCS: There are many current ways to keep the NPCs out of fights.
1. Warp to plex, don't go in. If you want decent fight, then burn off gate and wait. Opponent will have to burn at you and when he calls in for warp in they will warp to plex gate, not to opponent.


I wasn't aware that works. Are you sure fleet warps don't work if you are near a plex accelleration gate but don't go in it?


Absolutely postive. Suicide tacklers get upset when their backup can't warp to them.



Yes.

At the original quote


You can warp to the gate AT RANGE, but not to the person. If you "Warp to Bob" you will arrive at the Accel gate at 0 KM.

If you warp to the Beacon at 100KM, you arrive 100KM off the accel gate.

Where I am.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#147 - 2011-10-18 00:41:23 UTC
Thank you for the information. So as long as the accel gate is on grid people will warp to it and not the fleet member?

If they warp to 10k from the fleet member will they warp 10 k from the accel gate?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#148 - 2011-10-18 00:58:45 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Thank you for the information. So as long as the accel gate is on grid people will warp to it and not the fleet member?

If they warp to 10k from the fleet member will they warp 10 k from the accel gate?



Warp to Member = 0km at gate always


Warp to Beacon @ Range = Arrive at the Accel gate at that range.


Warping to a fleet member that is on the grid with the accel gate always lands you on the gate, no way around it. You'd have to line your fleet members at a position between the gate and a celestial and have them warp to the celestial to have them arrive at your position.


X = gate

U = You

F = Fleet member




X -----------U@100km------------>>>>>>>>>>>>>>F @ P1


If F warps to U at 100km F will land at X.

If F warps to X at 100km F will land at U (because you are inline to P1 at 100km)

Hope that helps.



Where I am.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#149 - 2011-10-18 03:38:10 UTC
Give us a reason to fight.

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Damassys Kadesh
Royal Khanid Hunting Society
#150 - 2011-10-18 04:37:29 UTC
Cearain wrote:
As long as there are enough plexes to do it will be a waste of resources to send too many pilots into the same plex. Those pilots could be doing other plexes individually. CCP needs to figure out the timers and the plexing system so that the sides will be better off splitting up and capturing more plexes instead of blobbing up.


My concern here is geared towards groups looking for PvP via plexing and not plexers trying to capture as much as possible. If a group's goal is to get some PvP while poking around in plexes, as soon as any enemies show up and enter a plex, the group will converge and focus on them. Within minutes, pilots spread thinly over a few systems could turn into a force outnumbering the enemy players 4:1 (for example) and could easily swamp the plex producing an uneven fight. Capping the number of pilots from each side in a given plex could really encourage fighting since you would KNOW that you will be facing a limited number of enemies at any given time. I know I would go for it without hesitation.

I'm sure they can do some very helpful tweaks, but it would be great to see some variation in how plexes function and thus how you must conduct yourself when entering them. Like the warp-disrupting plex; you would chose if you ever even wanted to enter that type of plex, and if not, you would not have to alter your fit. Only if you wanted to actively persue that type of combat, would you have to make the relevant adjustments.

Just suggesting to mix things up.

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117
Damassys Kadesh
Royal Khanid Hunting Society
#151 - 2011-10-18 04:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Damassys Kadesh
Ohhhh man... going one step further, ships could have a point value associated with them, and the gate could track the total value entered by each militia. Just like the tournament. That would be AWSOME.

Again, I envision this as being one of many types of plexes available to players to mess around with, not how all plexes should work.

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#152 - 2011-10-18 13:49:01 UTC
Damassys Kadesh wrote:
Ohhhh man... going one step further, ships could have a point value associated with them, and the gate could track the total value entered by each militia. Just like the tournament. That would be AWSOME.

Again, I envision this as being one of many types of plexes available to players to mess around with, not how all plexes should work.



If you did this you would want to do what hirana suggested and not allow people to even warp to the plex unless they could enter it. Otherwise people would camp the gate.

But again I think you are being concerned about a fairly high class problem. The problem right now is plexes are sitting around everywhere and no one wants to run them. This problem you are solving assumes that too many people will be rushing into the plexes.


I think the side with the bigger numbers should just be able to start winning systems but once they take over a certain percent of systems the other side can just send larger ships into smaller plexes. So you would get fights like 2 cruisers versus 6 destroyers and 3 frigates. Or 6 cruisers versus a BS or a 2 BCs.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#153 - 2011-10-18 14:02:15 UTC



FW Corps just got an interesting twist with the Player Owned Customs Offices...


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=205799#post205799

Where I am.
Insane Randomness
Stellar Pilgrimage
#154 - 2011-10-18 18:28:42 UTC
zero2espect wrote:
no more FW missions. to earn LP and other goodies you have to close plexes or kill targets. that will cut 50% of the people who are only in FW for the easy mission rewards down to those who really just want to be there. killing targets should count towards sovreignty somehow. nothing more frustrating than killing 127 enemy ships, no losses and then knowing that it doesn't mean anything - compared to a guy in a single frig capping some plexes.

the other thing is that held space has to mean something. stuff that makes a difference. 50% saving on pos fuel requirements, better rats, better static mission lootz, something combat related - e.g. a tech 2 interdictor bubble with only 5km radius that can be used in low sec only by the militia "owning" the system. racial bonus to the militia based ships in home systems. something. cheaper repairs. more ore output from belts (which brings miners, which brings pirates, which makes more people flying in closer systems and more targets).


I believe that in the Empyrean Age novel, the Gallente had a surveillance system for their borders with the Caldari named Tripwire, which they relied on as an early warning device. Something that has never been seen or heard of in our current game, and never mentioned since then. Perhaps these ssytems could have increase intel gathering power as you go inwards towards the high sec borders. Doing so would mean you could theoretically bait ships inwards towards your own boarders in order to gather intel on them. Or perhaps a defense grid or whatever, it doesn't necessarily have to be a boost or nerf to your effective power, but more an assist.

Quote:
The other thing that really sucks is that the militia is fairly fragmented - and then a big alliance can just come into the area and completely squash all faction warfare activity. the PL/amamake situation is just a joke. i don't hate on PL for being here, the mechanics dictate that they can go wherever they want - but having arguably the biggest, baddest alliance in the game squatting right in the middle of fast and loose faction warfare is just not the best for us - bringing capitals to frigate fights and tech3 blobs against cruisers and battlecruisers just takes the fun outa logging in.


THIS. This needs to be fixed before anything else. Perhaps like limiting capital ships to engaging in only the larger fleet fights, or perhaps only allowing corporations to join FW.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#155 - 2011-10-18 19:10:13 UTC
Insane Randomness wrote:
THIS. This needs to be fixed before anything else. Perhaps like limiting capital ships to engaging in only the larger fleet fights, or perhaps only allowing corporations to join FW.
If you can't build it in low sec, it should be able to be deployed in low sec.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#156 - 2011-10-18 20:19:49 UTC
Wendi Wu wrote:
2. Caldari and Amarr militia should show up on overview as friendly to each other. Gallente and Minmatar militia should show up on overview as friendly to each other. At the moment they don't and not a week goes by when we don't have a friendly-fire incident as a result.



This might seem like a minor thing but it would *really* be nice. When you go to the other front for a change of pace it would be nice to know who is in your friendly militia.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Sniperdoc
Stargate Kommand
#157 - 2011-10-19 16:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sniperdoc
Bloodpetal wrote:

This goes back to the practical question of.... why?

Why bother going into a plex?

And why bother fighting for it?

and
Cearain wrote:

Why should you do faction war?


Those questions basically bring to the forefront why FW is broken and Cearain answered in part what it needs.

Cearain wrote:

So ccp needs to make faction war fun, challenging, and/or make it so being good at faction war will be deemed meritorious by the community.


I'll reiterate again... just so the dev's see it over and over:

WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE FOR BEING IN FACTION WARFARE?!

What happens when you convert a system over to your faction = NOTHING
What effect does owning systems have on a faction = NOTHING
What effect does having rank in your faction's militia have = NOTHING
What effect does killing an enemy faction's militia member have = NOTHING (other than make them buy another ship)
What effect do a faction's systems have on an opposing militia member = NONE, see explanation below

Gallente Federation Navy can BUY ANYTHING in a State Protectorate Station
Gallente Federation Navy can dock all their ships in a State Protectorate Station

Seriously?

Do you see Al Qaida driving onto Ft. Hood, shopping at the Exchange or Commissary, while parking their T-60 tank in that base's Motorpool, and getting repairs from the US Army mechanics??? How the FLIP (had a much better word for it) does that make sense. Oh yeah... don't forget, they get medical care as well (compare that to standard clone purchases). Oh and they get to drive on and off the base however often they want without any restriction even though they shoot our guys right outside the base (station games).

The list really goes on. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO incentive for being in the militia other than farming missions so you can lose more ships or making having some killboard stats. What about restricting Navy ships to militia only? How about making the number of systems owned have an overall effect on the market. Then the militia actually has meaning to the general eve population that lives in Empire space.

Just some thoughts.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2011-10-19 16:45:14 UTC
Regarding incentives for losses and gains and plexing in general.

Assuming that there are increased rewards for PVP kills and flipping systems then perhaps the pay outs should be relative to the success of the faction.

Controversially I would perhaps propose a tax on High sec based corps based in that faction’s space. This tax only exists where there is a significant imbalance in the systems held. The worse your faction is doing the higher the tax the more ISK is goes to that government.

The pay-out for PVP kills and flipping systems would then be higher when a faction is losing. Seems unfair but it is to create a balance so that everyone does not just jump on the winning side and that perhaps the militia is reinforced when doing badly due to greater incentives.

This would require more than just the swinging of a few systems to trigger and perhaps your own rewards would drop if you faction becomes too dominant.

Any thoughts?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#159 - 2011-10-20 14:12:07 UTC


Soundwave responds to the FW thread in General Discussion and wants to see opinions on opening up all faction High Sec to all FW pilots....


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18015

Where I am.
Damassys Kadesh
Royal Khanid Hunting Society
#160 - 2011-10-21 05:24:48 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:


Soundwave responds to the FW thread in General Discussion and wants to see opinions on opening up all faction High Sec to all FW pilots....


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18015


Nice, I haven't had a chance to review the whole thing, but I see you linked this thread which is great.

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117