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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#421 - 2012-10-11 11:46:11 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Hmm, how is it useful to you to know what damage type you are getting shot by? It's not like you can adjust your resistances on the fly... (at least unless you have carrier support)

You can save cap by activating only the hardeners you need, and you can choose to overheat just the needed hardeners so you can overheat for longer periods before burning out.

…likewise, it would be nice if this kind of information was reciprocal: if you hit a target, it will give visual cues as to what kind of hardeners are being used. This could be as subtle as colour shifts in the hardener effects or (once we get those) in the hit effects, ore more direct by including some kind of resist-bracket description to the damage information (e.g. “Scratches for 5 damage [heavy resist]”).

It's only fair, after all: if the target gets the information to adjust his tank, the shooter should get the information to adjust his damage. Blink
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#422 - 2012-10-11 11:48:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…likewise, it would be nice if this kind of information was reciprocal: if you hit a target, it will give visual cues as to what kind of hardeners are being used. This could be as subtle as colour shifts in the hardener effects or (once we get those) in the hit effects, ore more direct by including some kind of resist-bracket description to the damage information (e.g. “Scratches for 5 damage [heavy resist]”).

It's only fair, after all: if the target gets the information to adjust his tank, the shooter should get the information to adjust his damage. Blink


So same kind of "brackets" around your guns maybe? :)

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Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
#423 - 2012-10-11 11:49:19 UTC
CCP Masheen wrote:
Deornoth Drake wrote:
Being color-blind (well, only red-blind according to my doctor but who knows what that means) I missed that!

This is something we are aware of and plan to address shortly.

Can't the client have a general UI setting for extra contrast ? Instead of trying to accomodate both player populations with the same visuals ?

On a general note : these changes look promising. Box or circle I don't care. But I never really understood how anyone could have used the damage notifications; which is info I was always keen on knowing.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#424 - 2012-10-11 11:52:34 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
corestwo wrote:
So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.


Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'


Can you explain the reason behind wanting to change it from a square to a circle ?

At the moment it is very clear which is which, don't change something just for the sake of it without any benefit.....again
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#425 - 2012-10-11 11:56:01 UTC
I finally have something to tell my friends when they say EVE is too "Sci-fi" and not enough "Fantasy" for them to play.

Quote:
opacity = hitHP / (ourShieldHP + ourArmorHP) * magic


EVE has magic.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2012-10-11 11:58:40 UTC
Looking good.

I would like to make a suggestion while you are tinkering with the UI - Change the colour of the tactical overlay from white. Because you use white text i eve, it clashes with the tactical overlay and sometimes makes the text surrounding your target impossible to read.

Or maybe you could just let us customize our own colours (i.e. text & overlay).

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#427 - 2012-10-11 11:58:50 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Maria Kitiare wrote:
Most of your players read from left to right, so if You insist on giving us those circles, please make it so shield is on the left side, armor on the right and hull on the bottom. This will also make it more in line with the current mod timer animation that starts in the bottom and moves around..
The day starts at midnight, at 12 o'clock, which is at the top of the clock, and the day progresses clock-wise. The targeting animation starts at "12 o'clock" and progresses clock-wise, same for the damage (shields starts at "12 o'clock"). Your mod timer animation observation is correct, it progresses clock-wise but starts at "6 o'clock"; perhaps that should be changed to start at "12 o'clock" as well. But that's for CCP karkur and Team Pony Express to think about if and how they want to tackle, not me. Big smile



To be fair actually left to right to bottom makes more sense to me.

Shield and armour are destroyed in that order.

Hull is the last to be breached so that is at the bottom (as lets face it you're in trouble if that takes any damage).

Then again I also think that when you get used to it you'll be fine, people hate change etc.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#428 - 2012-10-11 11:59:47 UTC
agrajag119 wrote:
Please let us keep the option to see raw #'s somewhere. I like to know at a glance, numerically, what the time to lock is


That's what I very much want to see after the changes too.

Other gripes I don't have at this time, looks fine.

One question, when will this be testable on Buckingham or Duality?

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#429 - 2012-10-11 12:04:16 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
The day starts at midnight, at 12 o'clock, which is at the top of the clock, and the day progresses clock-wise. The targeting animation starts at "12 o'clock" and progresses clock-wise, same for the damage (shields starts at "12 o'clock"). Your mod timer animation observation is correct, it progresses clock-wise but starts at "6 o'clock"; perhaps that should be changed to start at "12 o'clock" as well. But that's for CCP karkur and Team Pony Express to think about if and how they want to tackle, not me. Big smile



To be fair actually left to right to bottom makes more sense to me.

Shield and armour are destroyed in that order.

Hull is the last to be breached so that is at the bottom (as lets face it you're in trouble if that takes any damage).

Then again I also think that when you get used to it you'll be fine, people hate change etc.


I like the clock analogy, why not a compromise? Counter-clockwise for the indicator - shields on the left, armor on the bottom, hull on the right.

Heck, give it a dropdown in settings, but pick a sane default (counter-clockwise sounds like it might be it). Any way you want it, it's a circular animation on one of those 3 arcs.
Diana Valenti
Disposable Spies
#430 - 2012-10-11 12:10:45 UTC
It looks terrible, please let us choose between this and old one
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#431 - 2012-10-11 12:10:52 UTC
space chikun wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
To be fair actually left to right to bottom makes more sense to me.

Shield and armour are destroyed in that order.

Hull is the last to be breached so that is at the bottom (as lets face it you're in trouble if that takes any damage).

Then again I also think that when you get used to it you'll be fine, people hate change etc.

I like the clock analogy, why not a compromise? Counter-clockwise for the indicator - shields on the left, armor on the bottom, hull on the right.

Heck, give it a dropdown in settings, but pick a sane default (counter-clockwise sounds like it might be it). Any way you want it, it's a circular animation on one of those 3 arcs.

In fiddling around with my mock-ups, I've grown to like the idea of right-top-left (counter-clockwise from 5 to 7), largely because it creates a consistency with the damage track for your own ship. The one difference, of course, would be that it's all in a single segmented line rather than three layers, but that feels like a reasonable sacrifice to avoid making the damage track far too fat and unwieldy.

That breaks the clock metaphor but reinforces and builds on the visual language already present in the client: enemy ships display damage in (kind of) the same way you do.
Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#432 - 2012-10-11 12:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerulean Ice
CCP Prism X wrote:
So... WHICH ONE IS SHIELD?!!

Seriously, why don't I know this yet!?! Stop ignoring me just because I'm asking the difficult questions nobody else wants to ask!

CCP Prism X gets it.

Sure, we can all probably adapt, but when it takes a good half hour of staring at the before and after picture to figure out which is what (and I still guessed wrong, mixed up armor and hull), there's something not right about the design. It looks good, it just isn't clear. Clarity of information should always be the first goal of a targeting UI. Looking good is meaningless if someone can't tell at a glance which one is which.

The capacitor HUD stacks the bars. The tutorials, which have been much improved over the years, say which is which, and the current targeting setup mirrors the capacitor HUD. It's a very intuitive and descriptive setup.

The new setup, however, has none of this. It does not mirror the capacitor HUD. It does not stack. It does not start in an easy to interpret position. If the target has missing bits of hull and armor, it gets even more muddy, because then all the wrapped bars look the same and aren't arranged in a way that points out which is which.

Moreover, the current UI has the white bar shrink from right to left, exactly like the capacitor HUD for your own ship. The new one goes the opposite direction.

Cerulean Ice, Professor, E-UNI
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#433 - 2012-10-11 12:15:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
That breaks the clock metaphor but reinforces and builds on the visual language already present in the client: enemy ships display damage in (kind of) the same way you do.


Heh, to achieve this it would be easier just to present "our" shield/armor/hull in same kind of way they are currently displayed for targets :)

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space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#434 - 2012-10-11 12:17:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
space chikun wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
To be fair actually left to right to bottom makes more sense to me.

Shield and armour are destroyed in that order.

Hull is the last to be breached so that is at the bottom (as lets face it you're in trouble if that takes any damage).

Then again I also think that when you get used to it you'll be fine, people hate change etc.

I like the clock analogy, why not a compromise? Counter-clockwise for the indicator - shields on the left, armor on the bottom, hull on the right.

Heck, give it a dropdown in settings, but pick a sane default (counter-clockwise sounds like it might be it). Any way you want it, it's a circular animation on one of those 3 arcs.

In fiddling around with my mock-ups, I've grown to like the idea of right-top-left (counter-clockwise from 5 to 7), largely because it creates a consistency with the damage track for your own ship. The one difference, of course, would be that it's all in a single segmented line rather than three layers, but that feels like a reasonable sacrifice to avoid making the damage track far too fat and unwieldy.

That breaks the clock metaphor but reinforces and builds on the visual language already present in the client: enemy ships display damage in (kind of) the same way you do.


If only our shield / armor / hull / cap indicators were transparent and more hud-like, folks would understand what they're going for. That needs to be updated, too. I'd like to see it de-coupled from the butans somehow.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#435 - 2012-10-11 12:17:39 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Angeliq wrote:
WE NEED THE SECONDS!
We need to know how many seconds it takes to lock a target not to see a filling circle. What's wrong with you ppl? EVE is about information, numbers and tactic. Instead of making the UI more intuitive and add useful info to it, you guys are going in the opposite direction. Instead of redesigning/recoloring the weapon icons showing next to the targeting UI (cos most of them are really hard to see against a dark background), you did what? Removed critical information from gameplay and made the targeting UI counter-intuitive. Ofc, ppl will get used to it, just like we did with the new horrible inventory, but it is wrong. Stop wasting time repairing what is not broken.

http://oi45.tinypic.com/fa7ts8.jpg

As I said in the blog, this is very much work in progress and we have plenty of time to add one simple counter Smile.
It's def. something we will reconsider since some of you feel so strongly about it, and it might very well make a return Smile


Why the hell would you even consider removing it in the first place ? Seriously
space chikun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#436 - 2012-10-11 12:18:31 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Tippia wrote:
That breaks the clock metaphor but reinforces and builds on the visual language already present in the client: enemy ships display damage in (kind of) the same way you do.


Heh, to achieve this it would be easier just to present "our" shield/armor/hull in same kind of way they are currently displayed for targets :)


Pretty much what I was just trying to say.
none nalim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#437 - 2012-10-11 12:18:58 UTC
Could you add something that displays somewere around HUD information about selected target's basic stats? speed/transversal, angular etc. (costumized what is displayed). In this way players shouldn't have to look for key informations in overview. You could even add those beneath locked target icon (size of this icons costomized so bigger icon, bigger font) Then you could even display those in diferent colors (yellow/red), thickness so under your victim (hopefully) you can find everything that is needed to survive.
Angeliq
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#438 - 2012-10-11 12:20:13 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png

Interesting idea Smile


... but not useful information since you can't do anything to compensate for the incoming damage type while in combat. If you want to see what kind of damage you receive, just check the logs, dock and refit. Maybe you can tune the logs so it will show the damage type, but to have an actual bracket indicator that tells you what kind of damage you receive while in combat is totally useless.

wow much space very ship such pvp many pew
Kage Toshimado
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#439 - 2012-10-11 12:22:23 UTC
Here we go again.

Why do you mess with things that are perfectly fine....Squares to Circles?

It's like some designer is trying to keep his job, has done nothing relevant, and when it was his turn to stand up and present everyone in the meeting with what he had been working on, he had nothing.

He says to himself.... think think!!!

"Gentlemen, we are going to turn the locking mechanism from squares... to circles!!! Eh eh!!!??? Sounds good right!?!"

Everyone else in the room is like.. yeah, ok, whatever.

Why CCP? It's like the Unified Inventory. People said it was crap, people still say it's crap. Why break something that doesn't need breaking? Ugh
Viscount Hood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#440 - 2012-10-11 12:23:40 UTC
Reminds me a little bit of the original interface.
Looks good sofar, although I think it should start at 9 o'clock, who starts at 12 o'clock - only students!