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PI Extractor Question...How can you designate routing on a variable quantity?

Author
Blips Creeps
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-10-10 21:43:00 UTC
Alright, so I understand that the actual volume of resources extracted varies(typically decreasing) over time. Also, depending on someone's skills, the Program Output cycle amount can be off by some percent. Due to these two factors, the amount of resources extracted will be either higher or lower than that which I have designated for routing. I really really really hope that whoever might be reading this has guessed at my question(which I imagine has been asked in this forum before, only to get lost over and over again in the 70 pages of posts and never included in a tutorial or wiki(and certainly never in the official documentation.))

Alright, so I have an ECU, several basic industry(P1) facilities, and a launchpad. Let's say I'm processing Noble Gas to make Oxygen. So unless I misunderstand, the P1 facilities need an input of 1500 m3 of Gas per ECU cycle in order to operate constantly. They can hold at most 6000 m3 of Gas, 3000 m3 being processed and 3000 m3 stored. Now what I would absolutely love to do is to instruct my colony to fill the P1 facilities on an at need basis, moving to store extra Gas in the P1 facilities only when they're all operating. Finally, if all the stores are filled, I want any excess Gas to be stored at the launchpad, so when the inevitable shortage comes, the P1 facilities can simply take the stored Gas out of the launchpad.

Alas, it would seem that the colony supervisor is an idiot, because this is not how operations are being handled on the ground...Instead, it would seem that no prioritization is taken into consideration concerning the ECU's routing. It seems that it's left to the fates(or more likely a drunken colony supervisor) as to what routes will be honored. And if there's a surplus? Catch and release!

So, with the above context, a simple question...I have 8 basic industry facilities connected to an ECU with a daily program output of 1.5 million m3. I want them all running round the clock(48k m3/hr processed) with the ECU's excess production sent to the launch pad. How do I do this?
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-10-10 22:34:49 UTC
I dont know if this is the right thing to do, but it seemed to work for me.
I havent read most of the stuff written about PI since the initial implementation so take this with a grain of salt, and it will explain why the names may not be exactly what you are used to.

From the extractor head, send material to two locations, a processor plant and a launch pad. From the launch pad send material back to a processor plant and the resultant back to the launch pad.
L - > P
E - > L
E - > P
P - > L

Since its been a while, I don't remember if the extractor still stores excess material like it did at the beginning. If it does then its not catch and release, but from how you describe it it seems that they dont store any more. Routing a secondary amount from the extractor to a launch pad or the entire amount to a launch pad and then to a processor will solve your issues.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#3 - 2012-10-10 23:33:22 UTC
Here's what I do. I hope it answers your question.

I have an ECU. I route the P0 materials to my Launchpad. I then set up routes from the Launchpad to my P0 -> P1 Processors, with the results routed back to the Launchpad. I do my best to match the number of processors with the amount of incoming units.

For example, if the 'average units per hour' is 19,000 units, I create 4 processors (19,000 units/hour / 6,000 unit/hour/processor = 3.167 processors, or rounded up to 4 processors). If I think the Launchpad would fill up before all units are processed (a distinct possibility on high yield worlds), I will create a Storage Bay, and route 50% to the Launchpad and 50% to the Storage Bay, then route the materials from them to my Processors, and then back to the Launchpad.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus

Blips Creeps
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-11 00:46:09 UTC
Both of you, thank you for your quick replies. It shames me that I didn't think about routing directly from the ECU to the launchpad before sending it on to the processors. I will try that now.
tsuggerpuppe
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-10-11 13:12:41 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
... I will create a Storage Bay, and route [...] 50% to the Storage Bay,


I think this is not possible to be done automatically, is it? You have to do this manually if I remember correctly?!
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#6 - 2012-10-11 14:03:28 UTC
Blips Creeps wrote:
Both of you, thank you for your quick replies. It shames me that I didn't think about routing directly from the ECU to the launchpad before sending it on to the processors. I will try that now.

This is how it is normally done in my experience.

I notice that you seem to believe the cycle times are not adjustable as you seem indicate the 30 minute cycles on the extractors as a constant not a variable. This actually changes depending on the length of the program. Shorter programs can have cycles as low as 15 minutes, as you increase the length of the program the cycle times get longer up to 4 hours for programs that extend over many days. personally I run 1 day 45 minute programs, as it is the longest program you can set while maintaining 15 minute cycles.

At first I thought you were talking about the actual routed amount over the links. What has been stated so far has given me an idea I have not yet tried . When you set up a route from an extractor to a storage facility or factory the amount transferred across the link default's to the maximum single cycle output of the whole program. This number however can be manually adjusted. It does not affect the actual amount of material unless you set the number below the output amount from the extractor.

For example if you are targeting 6000 units per hour and end up with say 6800 on 1/2 hour cycles your average output will be around 3400 units per cycle. But the actual output will not be linear. Your early cycles will be well over the average while later cycles will be well under. If you route directly to a factory any amount over what the factory can receive will be lost. And like wise during later cycles when the actual output is below 3000 units per 1/2 hour the extractor will not be able to keep up with demand.

The usual method for addressing this is to route all material to a storage or launchpad facility, and then only send what the factory needs form there to the factory. In this way the extra materials per cycle are left in the storage facility where they can be used to top up the later cycles that are below what the factory needs.

My idea is to set two routes from the extractor. One directly to the factory with the transfer amount adjusted down so it will not send more than the factory can receive. Then send the remainder to the storage facility. You can then set up a route from the storage facility to the factory to top it off for later cycles when there is not enough coming directly from the extractor. But generally just routing everything to a storage facility and then loading factories from there is the easiest and best option.

I do not expect that this will not increase the efficiency of the factory but will reduce the amount of storage needed to be left open to receive extracted materials. I may have to try this as I sometimes have issues with storage capacity.

As far as how to stop from partially loading all factories rather than full loading one when materials get scarce at the end of programs. I have not figured that one out yet. Best solution I have come up with is to set up a new program before the old one completes. I try to log in the same time every day to restart extraction programs so the program has not quite completed when I stop and restart it. If you are running longer programs you can restart extractors ever 2-3 days or once a week depending on how long you set it up to run. However I have found that 15 minute cycles will give you the best output. It is very easy to maintain a 6000 units per hour minimum in high sec with 15 minute cycles. But it gets harder and harder to maintain as the programs and cycles get longer.

For low maintenance I try to run two extractors with enough heads out to meet the 6000 units/hour which feed through a launchpad to two P1 factories, one for each type. then feed through the launchpad again to a single P2 factory. I only make the PI good needed to make POS fuel in high sec. I have done up to P4 to build towers but this is much more time consuming. All P2 materials can be made from scratch on at least on type of planet. I have one gas planet that only makes P1 oxygen. The only importing I do is to bring in consumer electronics from a Lava planet to a barren planet already making mechanical parts, and make robotics. This gives me all the PI mats I need to make my own POS fuel. Four characters on four accounts gives me every thing I need. from PI and makes a decent mining crew for pulling in ice. 30 minutes a day on PI and two days a month mining ice fuels my POS with extra fuel to carry over or sell.

Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#7 - 2012-10-11 15:05:27 UTC
tsuggerpuppe wrote:
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
... I will create a Storage Bay, and route [...] 50% to the Storage Bay,


I think this is not possible to be done automatically, is it? You have to do this manually if I remember correctly?!


Yes you have to do it manually. When you go to create the route, you can change how much is routed back. It doesn't have to be 100% of what is being extracted.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus