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How to Boil a Frog

First post
Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-10-09 01:24:49 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... Smile
Bounties don't turn off CONCORD. So, if they're flying Macks, then the bounty reward is probably not worth the hassle of trying to gank a Mackinaw in highsec. Bounties are a bone thrown to the PvPers, while the ability to collect bounties is made ever more difficult in highsec space.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#62 - 2012-10-09 01:34:49 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... Smile
Bounties don't turn off CONCORD. So, if they're flying Macks, then the bounty reward is probably not worth the hassle of trying to gank a Mackinaw in highsec. Bounties are a bone thrown to the PvPers, while the ability to collect bounties is made ever more difficult in highsec space.

Selective quoting doesn't paint your argument in a positive light. The rest of that post also said " and transferable kill rights"... which does in fact "turn off Concord".

Incentive to assassinate our fine positive security status High Sec citizens along side opportunity built into the game mechanics to do so. Both built into easy to understand and explain game mechanics, as opposed to opportunity rooted in either inexperience with the game or confusion over ridiculously convoluted game mechanics.

This doesn't really support your hypothesis that CCP is trying to eliminate danger from high sec.

I am sure you will have a well reasoned counter point to this, which I look forward to. No need to selectively quote.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-10-09 01:36:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... Smile
Bounties don't turn off CONCORD. So, if they're flying Macks, then the bounty reward is probably not worth the hassle of trying to gank a Mackinaw in highsec. Bounties are a bone thrown to the PvPers, while the ability to collect bounties is made ever more difficult in highsec space.
Selective quoting doesn't paint your argument in a positive light. The rest of that post also said " and transferable kill rights"... which does in fact "turn off Concord".

Me placing a bounty on a bunch of miners (or unistas) has nothing at all to do with xferrable kill rights.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#64 - 2012-10-09 01:36:54 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... or perhaps transferable kill rights?

Now where did I recently hear about those very things.... Smile

Neither of those two things have any affect on anything. 99% of the reasons why someone wants some other person to die don't involve kill rights at all, bounties are irrelevant because A) there are no mechanics that enable you to collect them and B) people pay you money up front to kill individuals anyway.

None of the patches or expansions this year introduce any new ways for people to actually do violence to each other, rather they've made existing means of doing violence less effective and less attractive to a person looking to do violence. Rather, Inferno wardec mechanics make wars vastly more expensive for both individuals looking to wage war (due to the increased costs) and to people looking to hire mercenaries (because of the increased costs associated with both the actual cost increase and the increased risk of both allies and mutal war related exploits). And now crimewatch 2 will make aggression related ways to ruin people's **** into a giant clusterfuck.

All of the PVP related features this year that affect highsec make PVP in highsec vastly less viable and neither of your ideas help either.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#65 - 2012-10-09 01:38:24 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... Smile
Bounties don't turn off CONCORD. So, if they're flying Macks, then the bounty reward is probably not worth the hassle of trying to gank a Mackinaw in highsec. Bounties are a bone thrown to the PvPers, while the ability to collect bounties is made ever more difficult in highsec space.
Selective quoting doesn't paint your argument in a positive light. The rest of that post also said " and transferable kill rights"... which does in fact "turn off Concord".

Me placing a bounty on a bunch of miners (or unistas) has nothing at all to do with xferrable kill rights.


Except that both are being proposed for the next expansion. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#66 - 2012-10-09 01:40:32 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
LIke, say, the ability to set and collect bounties on upstanding high sec players... or perhaps transferable kill rights?

Now where did I recently hear about those very things.... Smile

Neither of those two things have any affect on anything. 99% of the reasons why someone wants some other person to die don't involve kill rights at all, bounties are irrelevant because A) there are no mechanics that enable you to collect them and B) people pay you money up front to kill individuals anyway.

None of the patches or expansions this year introduce any new ways for people to actually do violence to each other, rather they've made existing means of doing violence less effective and less attractive to a person looking to do violence. Rather, Inferno wardec mechanics make wars vastly more expensive for both individuals looking to wage war (due to the increased costs) and to people looking to hire mercenaries (because of the increased costs associated with both the actual cost increase and the increased risk of both allies and mutal war related exploits). And now crimewatch 2 will make aggression related ways to ruin people's **** into a giant clusterfuck.

All of the PVP related features this year that affect highsec make PVP in highsec vastly less viable and neither of your ideas help either.


They aren't my idea's. Those are mentioned as being worked on to be introduced in the next expansion... along with fixes to the various points you noted above.

You might check out a Dev Blog or interview with a Dev occasionally.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-10-09 01:42:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Except that both are being proposed for the next expansion. Blink

I know. Killrights will affect highsec PvP to a very small degree (carebears rarely do anything that gives people killrights on them), and bounties will have some small effect too. But nothing that outweighs the added safety being given to that area of Empire.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-10-09 02:23:31 UTC
The moment the "Green switch" goes live in crimewatch, I'm predicting something around or over the scale of the 2011 Incarna rage.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-10-09 02:28:21 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
The moment the "Green switch" goes live in crimewatch, I'm predicting something around or over the scale of the 2011 Incarna rage.
I doubt it very much. The temperature has been increasing very slowly. Most players won't realize the effect the "green" switch will have on the game going forward.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-10-09 02:38:41 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
The moment the "Green switch" goes live in crimewatch, I'm predicting something around or over the scale of the 2011 Incarna rage.
I doubt it very much. The temperature has been increasing very slowly. Most players won't realize the effect the "green" switch will have on the game going forward.


Well, if the green light comes on on my bike it means I've shifted into neutral and am over-revving (that's 2 Vs, not a w P) it

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#71 - 2012-10-09 04:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.


Which they immediately undid with the utterly excessive/needless mining barge HP buffs, and will further undo with the "idiot-switch," and that ill-conceived suspect-flag.

Please:

Do you people seriously think that the only ones who will use this safety-whatsit are newbs who aren't yet, but want to become, ready for free-PvP, and use that to intelligently approach it in small doses, going up as they feel more comfortable and get more experience*?

Do you, really?

The real world (pardon the punWhat?) doesn't work like that.

All of what the OP calls the super-bears will keep the diaper on so they can mindlessly carebear/bot in even more perfect safety, whilst losec remains the ghetto it is, whilst zerosec remains the insufferable circle-jerk fest of immature dickbags that it is, and whilst the bottom drops out of the mineral- and TI built-goods market. Again.

Unless CCP plans to massively nerf hisec income, which I highly doubt they will do, given that they want to keep their aforementioned (PLEX-paying, in many cases!) super-bears safe and happy, no?

Advice to industrialists: Start unloading your inventory soon, not Soon(TM), your investment's return-potential is about to tank (and I don't mean in the way that involves raw regen and resists, either.). Especially if you keep your account/s financed through PLEX, as all that money chasing same or increased demand with more subscribers...I don't the see PLEX-market's bottom dropping out from under, ooooooh no.

Maybe it's time to join a wormhole corp.? I don't see anything good for the long term future of known space, and especially 0.1+ rated space coming from this, except maybe in-the-moment cheap thrills courtesy of the suspect flag (Guys like Solstice Project should have a field day with this, but it strikes me as becoming rather...hollow...over the long-term.)

E:

*At least, I'd like to think that that is CCP's intention here, at least partially. The 40-year-old cynic in me who has some understanding of how/why businesses do what they do, however, knows better.

Ni.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#72 - 2012-10-09 04:18:09 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
All of what the OP calls the super-bears will keep the diaper on so they can mindlessly carebear/bot in even more perfect safety, whilst losec remains the ghetto it is, whilst zerosec remains the insufferable circle-jerk fest of immature dickbags that it is

Yeah, I love being part of a circle-jerk fest of immature dickbags.

Aww yeah

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#73 - 2012-10-09 04:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Touval Lysander wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

However if they go too far with the idjit proofing they risk alienating their current players, and the current players are the ones that have created Eves reputation as the pinnacle of what a game can be.

TL;DR new players are good, losing old players is not.

Are you seriously suggesting that we need the ability to grief new guys simply because they make a mistake (which is what the "switch" is for) as a reason to keep Eve "real" for the old guys?

Most armies in the world would probably prefer their soldiers to have the ability to walk before they give them a gun.

When the new guy "turns the switch on" (as it were), he'll know when and more importantly, he'll know why.






That's how we all learned --often, painfully-- and make no mistake, we are the better for it, as a community, and EVE is the better for it, as a game-world and a gaming-experience.

Oh, and sandbox video-game based Internet-community =/= real world army or training for same, FYI.

EVE itself is nothing more than a clunky, ****-poorly implemented, increasingly-archaic, and fundamentally quite simplistic game, with a few pretty (but atrociously resource-hogging) visuals and ship-models.

Us "old guys" are what have, and continue to make it rise above itself, despite CCP, not because of it. It's worked for damned near 10 years, because if it hadn't, and if another scifi/space-based sandbox MMO had existed in that time, then the servers would have gone dark years ago:

There just isn't enough there for anything but a free-form, community-driven fully-open sandbox, and I suspect that EVE soon won't be the only game in town anymore:

Alternative One.
Alternative Two.
Alternative Three.

Happy anniversary, Ultima Online: Trammel, and StarWars: Galaxies (NGE edition)...It was fun while it lasted.

Ni.

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#74 - 2012-10-09 04:27:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
All of what the OP calls the super-bears will keep the diaper on so they can mindlessly carebear/bot in even more perfect safety, whilst losec remains the ghetto it is, whilst zerosec remains the insufferable circle-jerk fest of immature dickbags that it is

Yeah, I love being part of a circle-jerk fest of immature dickbags.

Aww yeah


There's just no arguing taste, is there. Hey, it's cool: This is the 21st century, after all...

[/cynicism]

Ni.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#75 - 2012-10-09 04:29:37 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Happy anniversary, Ultima Online: Trammel, and StarWars: Galaxies (NGE edition)...It was fun while it lasted.

My my, Trammel. Who plays there nowadays?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#76 - 2012-10-09 04:33:31 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Happy anniversary, Ultima Online: Trammel, and StarWars: Galaxies (NGE edition)...It was fun while it lasted.

My my, Trammel. Who plays there nowadays?



Who, indeed.

RIP ninja-salvaging, too, by the way:

I shall forever love you for teaching me how to properly probe and use the D-Scan, mopt to mention honing my appreciation for Schadenfreude courtesy of rage-mutilated email/local-chat grammar!

Ni.

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#77 - 2012-10-09 04:37:47 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
Excellent analysis. CCP is turning the sandbox into a themepark with only a few rides, killing emergent gameplay.


Or you can distill my admittedly rather emotional ::Wallsoftext:: to their essence, and you get ^^that.^^

Ni.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-10-09 04:46:05 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Happy anniversary, Ultima Online: Trammel, and StarWars: Galaxies (NGE edition)...It was fun while it lasted.

My my, Trammel. Who plays there nowadays?

Who, indeed.

RIP ninja-salvaging, too, by the way:

I shall forever love you for teaching me how to properly probe and use the D-Scan, mopt to mention honing my appreciation for Schadenfreude courtesy of rage-mutilated email/local-chat grammar!

Haha, I just saw a ratter asking if any newbies wanted to salvage.

Currently, I can keep - TWO - noctis newbies 100% busy.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Taiwanistan
#79 - 2012-10-09 04:47:12 UTC
But hey OP don't you have soundwave to thank for your FW fortune? Why don't you try to make a honest living like us freighter gankers.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."

Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#80 - 2012-10-09 04:49:16 UTC
Just going back to boiling frogs again...

Can't you just put the lid on the pot...

Must resist urge to test theory of boiling frogs...

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.