These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How to Boil a Frog

First post
Author
Nanatoa
#21 - 2012-10-08 22:01:30 UTC
Excellent analysis. CCP is turning the sandbox into a themepark with only a few rides, killing emergent gameplay.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#22 - 2012-10-08 22:02:30 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

So the Empire miners will be just cheery? Cool story.

Right, no resources in empire now. And how about insane market tax there as well unless its racial goods.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#23 - 2012-10-08 22:07:07 UTC
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#24 - 2012-10-08 22:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Touval Lysander wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

However if they go too far with the idjit proofing they risk alienating their current players, and the current players are the ones that have created Eves reputation as the pinnacle of what a game can be.

TL;DR new players are good, losing old players is not.

Are you seriously suggesting that we need the ability to grief new guys simply because they make a mistake (which is what the "switch" is for) as a reason to keep Eve "real" for the old guys?

Most armies in the world would probably prefer their soldiers to have the ability to walk before they give them a gun.

When the new guy "turns the switch on" (as it were), he'll know when and more importantly, he'll know why.






That's not what I'm suggesting at all, the new idiot switch provides a lot more information to the new player which is good in my book. It will help them immensely and hopefully encourage them to stay. I'm all for ganking idiots but not by means of convoluted mechanics such as people dropping cans marked free stuff outside noob stations and then ganking those who take from them because they don't know any better, hopefully the new idiot switch will prevent this kind of thing happening.

What I am saying is that if CCP go too far with idiot proofing the game they risk alienating the players that have made Eve what it is today, the idiot switch is just the beginning, if they can keep things balanced they will be fine, if they screw with the mechanics so much that idiots can't be made to pay for their transgressions and idiocy via explosions then they take that risk, which will not end well for Eve as a game.

I don't play any other MMOs, even as one of the detested PvE players the thing that attracted me is the potential for real loss and everything that goes with it, without that Eve may as well be a theme park. I won't use the term carebear, as far as I'm concerned that's reserved for those that refuse to adapt or try and play Eve without interacting with others.

New players will always be welcome in Eve, they are the most important players in the game, primarily because we were all noobs once, without noobs Eve will die in a vacuum. Noobs eventually become dedicated players and "percolate" through the universe, some go onto PvP, some PvE, all have the chance to do either.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#25 - 2012-10-08 22:12:23 UTC
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

No, no no. you don't want to thrust those off the meds into reality like that. That jolt could fry a clone. You need to bring them down with a dart of Sooth Sayer. Tag them and release them back into the matrix.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-08 22:12:56 UTC
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.


I don't recall them releasing Tier 3 BCs with the message "Go forth and slaughter pubbies"
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#27 - 2012-10-08 22:16:25 UTC
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Blink
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#28 - 2012-10-08 22:19:17 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Blink

Coupled with the mining barge changes the destroyer buff and T3 battlecruisers are completely moot points. In fact destroyers are even less effective at ganking barges now than they were before the destroyer buff.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2012-10-08 22:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Blink

Coupled with the mining barge changes the destroyer buff and T3 battlecruisers are completely moot points. In fact destroyers are even less effective at ganking barges now than they were before the destroyer buff.

You guys aren't falling for the "we're totally not trying to dump you on the side of the road, the door is open for fresh air" argument, are you?

But it's fine, we all know Two Step needs to help cover for CCP in this matter. We understand your position.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#30 - 2012-10-08 22:40:40 UTC
Don't worry, I mean it's not like CCP has totally gutted every type of non-consensual PVP in highsec over the last year or anything.

Oh wait.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2012-10-08 22:42:47 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Don't worry, I mean it's not like CCP has totally gutted every type of non-consensual PVP in highsec over the last year or anything.

Oh wait.

People are still ganking freighters and MAKING A PROFIT.

The total, complete and bloody horror. Stop them, CCP, only you can prevent forest fi--- I mean profitable ganking ~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#32 - 2012-10-08 22:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
I'm sure they'll get to work on it ASAP. Can't have people playing the game at each other.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#33 - 2012-10-08 22:45:19 UTC
At least we have a new inventory system, so Soundwave can't be too angry really.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#34 - 2012-10-08 22:49:14 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.


I don't recall them releasing Tier 3 BCs with the message "Go forth and slaughter pubbies"

But it worked ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#35 - 2012-10-08 22:50:13 UTC
Frog legs are typically deep fried, not cooked.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#36 - 2012-10-08 22:53:37 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Frog legs are typically deep fried, not cooked.

2/10

already did that joke

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#37 - 2012-10-08 22:56:58 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Frog legs are typically deep fried, not cooked.

2/10

already did that joke


Well - didn't read a single post in the thread...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#38 - 2012-10-08 23:02:41 UTC
The OP called a Mackinaw a mining barge so obviously he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Seriously though....

My guess is CCP caters to the people that pay the bills. If carebears spend the most cash on the game then the vocal minority will have to pony up or deal with it. just saying.

Yes, I can envision a game where the players act as Concord. The current motivation for Concord is flawed as the only reason for a independent standing force would be to ensure trade. Concord reacts to any disturbance of the peace which makes little sense.

But to remove Concord you would have to change players motivation through the economy. You would have to set up rewards for protecting trade. Currently the only risk/reward relationship is to destroy trade.

Much like players can join factions they should also be able to join system militias. Militia members would be rewarded like any business, their gains would be based upon the amount of trade that passes through their system not carried by system pilots. Secondly, system pilots would be rewarded based upon the number of jumps they travel from their system, with the reward being calculated by the sum of points gained (points for each system= 1/sec rating with 0 equal to .1) with zero reward for failure. Now you would see people defending gates and defending transports as they activity could become lucrative.

That is just one idea. I am sure there are many more if people put their heads to it.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#39 - 2012-10-08 23:13:09 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Two step wrote:
I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc.

How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Blink

That destroyer insurance was really keeping suigankers afloat. I don't know how they'd manage without it.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-10-08 23:17:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
TL;DR Gaining new players is good, losing old players is not.
Agreed.

So far the changes are worrying, but not game breaking. The question remains "How far does CCP intend to go with the highsec molly coddling?"