Player Features and Ideas Discussion

While i think that would be a decent ship.:

I would really like it if the Maller just worked with lasers

ATM it just doesn't because it needs a cap booster but only has 3 mids.. And there is no option for us who don't like using cap boosters because there is no utility high slot... And because NOS is ****.

3 Medslots is enough for most Amarr cruisers :

You may have to make a choice (ohnoes) about fitting either a web or a cap booster with your propulsion and point/scrambler, but lasers have a strong tracking and you have lowslots enough to fit tracking enhancers if you need to...

If you fit a pvp buffer Maller and doesn't expect to become heavily neuted it is very possible to run a good setup without a cap booster. Your cap onlyhas to last as long as the fight which is usually 2-3 minutes at the most. Cap stability is nice, but if you don't like to take a risc maybe you should go play... something else :-)
If you DO need a cap booster I am sure the tracking of lasers will do fine without a webifier. Afterall you DO have enough lowslots for a decent tank and a few tracking enhancers??

Everybody want Dual propulsion, dual web, point and scrambler gank ships with Tracking disruptors and a huge armor buffer while flying faster than anyone else - But try to embrace the possibilities and the eternal search for good setups because you can never find THE best setup in Eve!!

Apart from that I too think the Maller could use 3 light drones

Pinky

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Lasers have pretty ****** tracking, and the Maller is really slow so if its going to keep anything inside of it range long enough to killl it it needs the web.

If you PVP fit a maller and expect to not be neuted you're going to be in for a surprise. A majority of valid targets for you have a neut.

The maller as it is, is completely ****.

Any thoughts of providing the Maller with a HAM bonus or straight missile bonus? When using the Maller into a brawl, it would be kind of nice to have a cap independent weapon, which also let's you lay down the consistent damage of missiles, and also would lend its self better to optional active tanking builds. Essentially, it would be a lot of fun to have a cheaper version of the Sacrilege. Turret DPS from lasers could be regulated to the Omen.

CCP Fozzie, the rupture needs less speed! Here's my argument:

Here's some rough (I tried my best to replicate new stats using modules but some things like changes in mass are hard to calculate so I'm estimating but it shouldn't be too far from the mark) numbers for the new Attack Cruisers vs the new Rupture. I chose to fit them with short range weapons + long point + shield as I feel that exemplifies the Attack Cruisers strength in speed and is what I feel people will generally fit, the fits are reasonable, with t2 equipment, meta where needed and according to my calculations, should all fit with perfect skills and no implants

All stats are with max bandwith used + gallente drones and ALL V characters. I posted relevant ammo stats.

Caracal
Highs: HAMs
Mids: MWD/LSE/Invuln/T2 LongPoint/Web or utility
Lows: 2 BCU/Nano/DCU
Gets roughly 1.8km/s, 352dps(CN Ammo) @ 25km, 391dps (Rage) @ 25km, 40 drone dps, 25k EHP w/ 1 EM rig + 2 CDFE
430 Total dps w/ Rage

Omen
Highs: HPLs
Mids: MWDLSE/T2 Long Point
Lows: 3 HS/1 TE/1Nano/DCU
Gets roughly 2km/s, 458dps (IN Multi) @ 8 + 6km, 365dps (Scorch) @ 26 + 6km, 135 drone dps, 21k EHP w/ 1 EM Rig + 2 CDFE
596 Total dps w/ IN Multi

Now the Thorax is a little special as even with Null + TE it's unlikely to be able to kite in long point range so I opted for a shield-gank brawler which I think will be popular

Highs: Neutrons
Mids: MWD/LSE/Scram/Web
Lows: 3 Mag Stab/1 TE/DCU
Gets roughly 2km/s, 526dps (CN AM) @ 2 + 8km, 158 drone dps, 19k EHP w/ 1 EM rig, 1 CDFE, 1 ACR (can trade range/dps for tank by downgrading guns)
684 Total dps w/ CN AM

Now....the Rupture
Highs: 425s, Meta 4 Medium Neut
Medium: MWD/LSE/Invuln/Long Point
Lows: 3 Gyro/TE/DCU
Gets roughly 2km/s, 411dps (RF SR) @ 2 + 15km, 111 drone dps, 25k EHP w/ 1 EM + 2 CDFE rigs
522 total dps w/ RF SR

I didn't bother with the Stabber because it's going to be way faster than these ships and probably fit with way more speed and less EHP so it's highly dependant on piloting so stats mean less.

So...in a nutshell, a shield Rupture can easily match the Thorax for speed, and outspeeds the Omen/Caracal easily as they can barely keep up even with nanos. Thus it can effectively catch all the Attack Cruisers and escape from the one Attack Cruiser that can brawl it down. It has more EHP than all of them, it can also drop the invuln for more utility and still have more EHP than everything except the suggested Caracal (which doesn't stand a chance in a straight up slug match anyway). Medium Neut allows the Rupture to easily range control all the Attack Cruisers within scram range (and absolutely destroy Omens w/o a cap booster and cause serious problems for the Thorax).

While the numbers don't seem that ridiculous for the Rupture, what can't be seen in stats is the amazing utility it gets, the other ships tend to have weaknesses that are easily exploited (caracal speed, omen cap, thorax range), additionally, the Omen/Thorax/Stabber will have issues with frigates if the former 2 use medium drones and if the latter doesn't have neuts, Caracal is less susceptible as GMP changes means you can have 80m3 explosion radius with your HAMs. The shield rupture gets it all, speed to kite ships it can't brawl (other combat cruisers/caracal/omen), disengaging power against ships that can catch it AND brawl it down (Thorax), good damage projection out to long point range for ships that try to kite it (Stabber), good brawler dps with a neut if it chooses to do so, full flight of lights + medium neut means frigs have nothing on it.

So yeah, Rupture needs its speed buff toned down, I'm not suggesting it be left out in the dust while the other cruisers get buffed, hell I can even live with the extra mid (though that really gave it alot more options as if it needed more), but +48 m/s is too much, +28m/s will give it higher speed than all the combat cruisers and still slower than all the attack cruisers, giving us a reason to actually fly the Attack Cruisers as with current iterations, fast cruiser = Rupture (or Stabber), anything else is subpar.

@Major Killz
Yeah sure if you can prolong a fight at range for long enough you may win out over a Rupture if you're in a Omen or Caracal but that's not something you can easily achieve against a boat that's going faster than you and when the Rupture closes a shield Omen you're going to be barely able to shoot your guns under the neut pressure and in a Caracal any utility advantage you had is gone once the Rupture sucks you dry (and it can also field its own web and still brawl a Caracal down).

As you said theorycrafting situations proves nothing and in that world any ship can take another down. However you did agree with what I said about the Rupture having so many options that it can mostly pick its fights and having loads of utility allowing it to deal with frigates easily as well, which is my whole point. So I ask you why would you fly an Attack Cruiser that can 'hold its own' against a Rupture while having other easily exploitable weaknesses (like speed, lousy brawling, susceptibility to frigates, lack of utility/range control etc) when you can fly a Rupture that can easily take on all the other Attack Cruisers while fielding better stats in almost every category and makes up for the places it doesn't do the best with amazing utility that allow you to take on a much larger range of targets?

I'm not claiming the Rupture is a solo pwnmobile which will own all the Attack Cruisers easily, I'm just saying that by being faster than all the Attack Cruisers and by nature being a Combat Cruisers gives the Rupture the ability to perform the same role as an attack cruiser (fast dps cruiser) better than all of them because it also gives the Rupture a myriad more options.

I also don't get why you need to be so over the top in your response with the TERRIBUBBLE and DUMMIES, what I was getting at was the Rupture needs to lose a mere 20m/s from it's proposed model, you yourself say that 300m/s velocity is not that big a difference and what I'm suggesting would probably equate to less than that accounting for skills/mwd but allow it to be a smidgen slower than all the Attack Cruiser thus not stepping on their toes as much. I also didn't go into the Vexor at all, I do agree with you though, that thing is going to be pretty crazy post patch in its current suggested form.

Well sh!t. Are you telling me a pilot who's not TERRIBUBBLE. Has to employ tactics and strategies to use a certain setup and ship effectively against whatever said pilot may encounter? WELL HAWT DAMN! I TELL YOU WHAT! The Rupture is not GAWD mode now and it definitely won't be as good after these changes. Defining good is a comparetive exercise. Even now a autocannon-shield-Hurricane has terrible damage projection compared to a Drake and Harbinger. The Aformentioned ship excels @ something a Hurricane does not (damage projection). Same with a Talos compared to a Hurricane. The Damage is so significant that it nigates most of a Hurricanes other strengths. However, that same Hurricane is most likely optimum for an enviroment where anything can happen. While a Talos is Optimum @ esploding most things Cruisers and battlecruisers.

Summary: proposed Rupture will be bad against most of the other propose tech 1 cruisers, close and long range. However, it will be good or decent @ everything. Making it the most versitile which is the whole philosophy behind Minmatar ships.

I think he might just be a child to be honest.

My suggested changes:

Maller:
Needs a utility high slot, at the cost of a low. It should also gain a 15/15 drone bay.
Slot layout: 6 H (+1), 3 M, 5 L (-1), 5 turrets.
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15.

Moa:
Needs another mid, at the cost of its utility high and missile slots.
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 4 L, 5 turrets, 0 launchers (-2).

Vexor:
Trade a low for a utility high slot and swap its bonuses for Hybrid tracking, and Drone tracking & hitpoints.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints per level.
Slot layout: 5 H (+1), 4 M, 4 L (-1), 4 turrets.

Rupture:
Trade a low slot and a launcher to regain its 6th high slot and another turret.
Reduce drone bay to 15/15. Reduce speed to 225 m/s.
Slot layout: 6 H (+1), 4 M, 4 L (-1), 5 turrets (+1), 1 launcher (-1).
Mobility (max velocity): 225.
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15

Yes, these suggested changes are pretty much cruiser versions of the Punisher, Merlin, Tristan, and Rifter. I don’t think they render their frigate counterparts obsolete however.

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All the above changes don’t account for individual weapon systems being broken or OP. They also don’t account for certain ships being faster than some Attack Cruisers. Those are separate issues.

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The above changes also open the option for CCP to introduce another line of combat cruisers (new ships!) to fill the roles of:

Amarr: range and damage.

Caldari: range and missiles.

Gallente: tank and damage.

Minmatar: tank and missiles.

Yes? No? Why?

I agree. But the problem there is with attack cruisers, and I didn't want to suggest attack cruiser changes in the combat cruiser thread. They could definitely also trade a tank slot for a utility high.