EVE General Discussion

No, it didn't. What caused the problem in the first place had absolutely nothing to do with the price of whatever ship was being used to gank with. It could've been a billion isk ship, and the miner who got ganked would be just as irate as if it had been that fabled 200k catalyst in Amarr.


No, because it would've been pants on head ********, and it wouldn't have made the miners any less butthurt.


Show me an alliance where there aren't SRPs in place for core ships such as dictors, hictors, commandships, ahacs, T3s, scimitars, bombers etc etc etc, and that's an alliance which isn't going to be very big in sov warfare.


Wrong. The reward with flying T2 is that you're more specialized and can do things others can't, or you can do them better. It's a cost/benefit evaluation which the pilots have to choose between before undocking, and it comes at the cost of fuckups being costlier. That's how it is, and that's how it should be, otherwise there'd be absolutely no point in flying T1 ships. And this would be bad for the game, and counter to the whole tiericide thing they're doing now, where they're making as many T1 ships as possible a viable option to fly.


1) He could ship down to a T1 and get the same job done, just at a slightly slower pace.
2) ahahahaha no, people wouldn't go to lowsec just because suddenly T2s etc were properly insurable.

You don't have to imagine it, you can just directly observe it.

Who needs a magic wand when you have the power to "rebalance".

Zim.

You're not answering why they did. What, the miners browbeat them to death? Get real.

Miners were losing 200m uninsurable ships in the 1000's. They got wound up and very fn angry.

You pfffttttt on both points as though they are not relevant. No amount of denial is gonna reduce either the reasons for it or the outcome of it.

Even I, a 3 year player, pulled the pin - not because I might get ganked - but because of the BS that surrounded the whole affair where it was so easily done with **** all risk to the ganker - the whole time they were screaming Banzai, HTFU miners, tank, align, bla bla while they rode shiney new BC's that could alpha the average Hulk.

Even you guys - very pointedly stated - and did - gank even the best tanks. You just used numbers when a miner DID do the right thing. Miners were absolutely targeted and absolutely slaughtered. Even the "good" ones.

The swarm killed the norm. The price is having to read a 32 page whine with someone TRYING to tell you guys what you DID wrong, what you're DOING wrong and what MIGHT fix the problem.

Yes. That's right. I might never be right in your eyes Zim but I'm not interested in your one-sided belliegerence, you are but one person from the group that CAUSED the problem. Try a solution. A REAL one. And take ya damned Goon hat off, it's affecting your brain!

However, to find the solution, you'll first need to identify (or accept) the cause. Saying CCP waved the magic wand simply because we yelled at them is daft and you should be ashamed of yourself.

If CCP were that limp-wristed, Eve would not be Eve (and nor would it remain so) and they probably recognise that better than you or I ever will.

A paragraph from my post above Zim.



NOTHING was able to stop the ganking that CAUSED the problem.

NOTHING.

Stop BS'ing.

So first you say the miners didn't browbeat CCP into making huge changes to the mining ships, then you talk about how miners were very angry for losing 200m ships. It's nice to see how you can stay on target between two separate sentences.

Yes, the miners lost "uninsurable" ships, Yes, they got angry, Yes, they bitched and whined up a storm. No, they didn't do all the things which we told them to do to avoid getting ganked. And yes, CCP did make the changes because miners refused to do all the things which we told them to do to avoid getting ganked.


The average untanked hulk.

The tanking mods and other preparations wouldn't have cost a lot, and it'd've saved them millions.


There were some ganked during the ice interdiction, but this was not sustainable. There were a lot of tanked ones which were left completely alone because there weren't enough people available or willing to gank that specific barge.


We did choose a solution, we moved on to ganking 51b+ freighters instead.


You guys did yell at them, and they did make the changes because miners refused to adapt.

And given that CCP are now going to nerf even the ganking of freighters etc, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that CCP are being exactly that limp-wristed, is your problem, not mine.

The ganker will use however many ships or whatever fitting it takes so long as it remains profitable. That is part of the asymmetry. I could care less that you can't tank concord. It doesn't change the fact that the formula was firmly in the gankers favor. If the ganker did have to use more expensive fittings, then it wouldn't have been a problem. As I said, all CCP did was adjust the equilibrium between profit and loss a little higher. They thought that it was too easy, and everyone who doesn't have their head up their butt knows it too.

This is purely a failure to adapt. I thought you guys were all [H]ard?

And if every exhumer and mining barge had taken a few basic precautions to make them unprofitable to gank, the whole hulkageddon would've petered out all on its own.


But apparently you didn't care less.


The surprise factor is always in the ganker's favor, he chooses the engagement. However, the victim could've chosen to make himself less appetizing than the other guy, and they would survive. They chose not to, which meant that the gankers kept on ganking. It's all your own fault.

What's next, ganking a 51b+ freighter is wrong too, because it's "firmly in the gankers favor"?


The miners refused to adapt, so CCP had to adapt for them. We've adapted by ganking freighters instead. vOv

Gankers were winning becaue miners were taking neither the precaution of fitting a tank, nor the precaution of paying attention and mining aligned.

Saying that gankers were winning by the nature of the role and engagement is ridiculous. They won because the opposition did literally nothing.

No. I would suggest that the problem is now yours.

Just keep raging Zim. Apparently it works. Since CCP are so limp wristed, I'm sure they'll slide a fix in for you.

I'm sure they will.

I'm. Sure. They. Will.

If they aren't paying attention a battleship can lose to a rookie ship. Your argument is moot because miners did nothing but whine to defend themselves, when there were multiple options to do so.

Also, there will be no equilibrium because now there will be no resistance.

Why would somebody who is risk-averse not train for a Mackinaw if they're interested in "playing Eve Online?"

Answer: It's the most lucrative option for the purely risk-petrified, so therefore they wouldn't.