Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Nice posting, indeed. What I see there is this: there are people who dont cry, they dont die, they adapt! And, voila, they found something which works. After this there will be another ship which is maybe good in countering the Zealots, or not ,... we will see.

my resume: investigate things, but keep the whole picture in mind. Atm Drakes dont seem to be ruler of nullsec anymore, and no nerf was needed ... I agree with you in the point its harder to find Zealots than Drakes, and they are also more expensive to replace. So my bet would still go for a tech 1 hull counter, best missile based :) Either way, the players with skills show we dont need nerfbats normally, but just time to adapt ..

although I admit, some issues should be adressed, and again, I am the last one to object to a reasonable adjustment. It should leave the ships in a decent shape though, and if one ship is 4th of 4 in one aspect then the fact its 1st of 4 in another aspect does NOT give a reason for a nerf, but just shows overall there is balance.

best regards

Yes popular, why would that be?
I doubt you have fought GSF....looting the field after a battle with them is pointless. Its a lot of meta 2 and 3 crap that you would never fit. So yeah, Zealots are boss, simply because they have a significant SP advantage.



So you mean cry or agree......I don't agree with the najority of your points at all. I'm for what CCP is doing now, and I've spent half of the last year in either a Drake or a Tengu.

...and my killboards are public, this is my main.



Yeah, its not king because GSF isn't terribly agile with their fittings. ....which goes back to the lower SP line pilot. I'm sure they woudld love to crush a system with 300 Tengues, but they are backed into a corner by virtue of their SRP and lack of pilots that have the support skills to an acceptable level to bring a T3 fleet.

TEST swapped to Foxcats to stop our Tengus, a meta that relies on cap superiority to work.



Again, they are being adressed. HMLs are being brought into line with the rest of the weapon systems. Drake will still be the boss of T2 BCs, and Tengu will still be rediculous,

I MUCH prefer the cane to a drake.

Sadly I'm not flying in groups of 5 most of the time, I NEED to be able to take 25 ships at a time, so that means Drake. In a nutshell.

When I came off trial I had 0 caldari or armarr skilss, the comment made was "holy **** you love Hurricanes" Because I couldn't fly a lot of the doctrines, but I had a logi 5 alt, so I got by.

HAMS perform well in the role they are meant to be used i.e. heavily tackled bc so a HAM drake using webs work effectively

Well damage application will improve with the GMP skill and when they do TE's TC's but atm they do well enough against bc's and cruisers especially as cruisers tank is so poor atm.

I've been watching this thread, and I just wanted to say I am happy to see the proposal has changed.

All of my original concerns have pretty much been addressed. I doubt many people ever bother to post to say thanks to CCP for paying attention to our concerns, because as soon as they see that their concerns are addressed they just stop watching the thread.

So I want to take this operability to say thanks, for myself, but also for all the people too lazy to say it themselves.

Basically I agree with you here - there has to be something which is better, and something which is worse if we dont do all the same. My concerns (and those of others) for those changes which are planned are though, that missile will not be on the better end anywhere afterwards, bt instead be always a worse choice than guns. Atm missiles are fine for one thing, and worse for all others. This one thing which they are fine at (speaking of meds and larges!) is what should get nerfed according to CCP.

Although I would like to see a more balanced Eve in the end, I fear they mess it up somewhere in between. :)

With LM's getting a 10 percent buff in damage accross the board, fury LM's in RLML's might be pretty good at not only damage projection (in a velocity bonus hull) and application of that damage. I am certainly going to give them a try in the new Caracal. It's dps will be low up close, but once you pass falloff in a comparable Medium turret, you will still be able to apply full damage with the proper ammo. Faction should hit in a Caracal from around 45 km or so. It will also rip apart frigs and destroyers, and be fairly mobile at the same time (gunna nano mine).

From Fozzie's spreadsheet, it looks like Faction ammo is the desired ammo for same size / ranged engagements. Precision for a size below, and Fury for a size above / heavy webbed and painted targets. 12 ammo choices per launcher type is pretty flexible. Even the nerfed heavy missiles will have many uses and applications. Need some more in your face damage to a BC in your face use fury.

Oh and HAMs and Torps will apply there damage better with Guided Missile precision.

Maybe it would be a good time to continue the theme of the RMLM to BS sized weaponry. It has been suggested before, but I believe a Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher would be great. Have around 20% faster rate of fire than a HML, but have fitting requirements along the lines of the dual 425 autocannons (1000-1200 PG 25-35 cpu). Would give another option to BS to close the gap for longer range than torps but better applied damage, but lose out to cruise past 60km or so.

Well, thank you for thanking CCP. But think what you want as far as what their reaction was. I doubt it was the volume of whining that changed things. I think the TD/TE/TC delay was done out of some concern that they needed to do more testing on the numbers for those. Because they are introducing two new missile destroyers that have an explosion bonus and if those were augmented with too much from TE or TC they could be too good in their role as frig killers.

As for the changes on HMs themselves I'm glad part of the changes were a big reduction in range on the tech II high damage ammo, mirroring what occurs with turret ammo. Regardless this was never presented solely as a total nerf to missiles it is a project to bring them in line with turrets. In that they will eventually have to live with needing to fit TE and TC to get them to perform in certain ways and conversely other (hopefully only the specilized ships) ships will be able to fubar the missiles just as they can now fubar turrets with TDs.

I.

I think there *is* no HML problem. If there would be a HML problem in a way they would be far OP in comparison to other stuff, then

1) everyone in lowsec would fly HML-Drakes instead of Canes, but in fact the numbers show its the other way round
2) the bonused hulls which can use HML would be all usable or OP, in fact just 2 of them are used regularly

short resume - HML are not OP IMO

II.

I agree HML are stronger than medium turrets, but IMO in a way this is not yet completely out of line or OP. As far as I see this, the medium long range turrets are able to deal more DPS in ranges below 35km and above ~70km (for a not sniper-rigged Drake). Although this might seem to be a huge advantage in fact current meta game of Eve doesnt favour this kind of engagement range too much apart from null sec blob fights.

this could be adressed by changing medium long range turrets, and or adjusting some things for HML .. for example long range t2 ammo with less DPS for HML, so in the end there would be 2 range-windows which favour HML (for example 35-50 and then 65-80 or so) and the others are better for turrets. Not sure if this is viable or not.

III.

For the Tengu I am not sure if maybe the missile subsystems boni have to be adjusted, so the ranges dont get so high.

IV.

Drake nullsec blobs could be solved by fixing CMs and Ravens for PvP - something which will hopefully happen anyway. Atm there seems to be a quite popular counter to Drakes in nullsec anyway, and everywhere else except in PvE the Drake is not OP.

In one thing I agree to Lili Lu btw, putting Fury t2s to short range makes sense. I fear they will not work though due to their hard nerfs on every soft stat. And it would be maybe smart to make flight time even smaller but adjust all velocities, so missiles have the similar range but much less time in air (=less load, more use in mixed fleets). If thing should be brought in line, then this important stat should not be neglected.

Fly safe all ..

PS: I just used my Machariel and Vargur to earn some ISK the last days and ... OMG are they op. I mean .. doing the same stuff with a perfect Tengu, counting salvoes and knowing about every thing which is needed to speed up a mission its still so far behind the Machariel and Vargur :D (which is ok per se, t3 *cruiser* shouldnt be on par with a pirate BS. But the Tengu is the best missioner with missiles by a quite big margin .... ;) )