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Amount of subscibers, EvE vs other mmo

First post
Author
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-10-04 21:47:12 UTC
if you look at the total amount of monthly subscriptions paid during a games lifetime, eve ins probably second only to world of warcraft

don't forget that games like warhammer online, age of conan, AION or even swtor rapidly loose subscribers in the first 6 months after launch
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-10-04 21:48:10 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Clearly, Eve is dying.


Is not anoter EvE is dying post. im old player who play form 2006 ( more than 500 day online) and i adep to this fact. here is average 40k online, i wrote this post because want to know real reason why here only small amount of people compared to other online game...


Popularity doesn't necessarily make a successful game. Name some other MMO's where the subscribtion numbers have steadily gained each year as opposed to fluctuating.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Borisk Zeltsh
Alcohlics Anonymous
#23 - 2012-10-04 21:48:16 UTC
qualty not quantity

tho latly qualty of eve players has droped latly we have alot whiners crying for nurfs
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#24 - 2012-10-04 22:38:17 UTC
Eve has a very steep learning curve and allows other players to abuse you in many ways. It's not for the faint of heart, and requires a long attention span. These are not universal qualities in space nerds.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-10-04 22:52:00 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
because its space, and space is more boring than anything


also

interstellar dix


SF themes got big amount of all kind fans, StarWars, Battlestar galactica, Star Trek, etc... it must be another reason...



Probably because it's the only game around where acting like a scum and solo with alts/multiboxing is actually better rewarded than the other way around.

Short story: it's not for everyone.

brb

Jim Hazard
Fury Industry
#26 - 2012-10-04 22:57:44 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Hi all

While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living.

The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this.

Why others online games are so popular and EvE not What?Sad

So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this.

Sorry for my horrible grammar.

o7


EvE simply is not a game for the masses. Most people are looking for instant action in games and do not want to play a game where the most important part is planning your fights. This also makes it not very interesting for people to watch, when they do not know anything about the game.

Take counterstrike for example where years ago broadcasts of international matches already did hid several 100k viewers. Its simple fast action which you can enjoy without having to actually know any complicated game mechanics. The AT simply is not interesting for people who do not know anything about EvEs game mechanics.

500vs500 man fleet fights do not really happen as often as you think. Yes in the major conflicts there are big fleet fights, but EvE still has a lot of room for small gang PvP. And I personally enjoy fleet fights.... If you do not enjoy them stay out of stuff like sov warfare and go roaming with a small gang instead.

The big fleet fights are one part of the game that make eve special. No other game has ever seen way more than 1000 players fighting in a system for hours and hours reshipping over and over again and fights like that are amazing if you ask me.

CCP can not really do that much about it without putting up artificial limits in the systems. As the game grows big alliances will keep fielding more and more ships. If you have more people willing to join a fight who would tell them to stay home? If you get told 3 times in a row that you are not allowed to join the fight just because there are already 100 man in the fleet i am sure you would also start getting annoyed....

TLDR: System is fine as it is, If you dont like big fleet fights stay out of them and just go out to roam in smaller fleets.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-10-04 22:58:37 UTC
To answer the OP: Eve is very much a niche game. There is nothing wrong with that.
Kinet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-10-04 23:45:31 UTC
Not many games are designed to allow other players to screw you over at any moment. There are not legions of scammers on other MMO auctionhouses making them totally useless like Eves contract system. You can not be ganked in most games unless you flag yourself for PVP. In Eve, a person can bump your ship and keep you from mining or warping, blow up your mining barge just for giggles and even pay others to make your gameplay a nightmare.

Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts. Sadly, most of the world gaming population does not appreciate that. Luckily, I do. Lol
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-05 03:25:20 UTC
Kinet wrote:
Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts.


EVE is BDSM with out a safe word.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#30 - 2012-10-05 03:29:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kinet wrote:
Eve is a cruel mistress, she will tell you she loves you while taking your wallet and kicking you in the nuts.


EVE is BDSM with out a safe word.


It doesn't have the orgasm either.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-10-05 03:35:04 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Hi all

While ago i wach some world championsship turnament in online game caled leauage of legends, and here was more than 80.000 views live that is more than average amount of people loged in eve, just a single room strem tv chanel with 80.000 people waching... but in total here is milions of views while turnament, because people can select own chanel with specific language depend country where they living.

The best part, this game is not even a mmo is just game where people fight 5vs5 in old boring map, using champions like pokemons or somthing like this.

Why others online games are so popular and EvE not What?Sad

So bigger is better ? maybe EvE offer to much large scale pvp ? maybe is to hardcore for mass ? maybe here solo and small pvp is dead ? maybe people love game with small amount of people involed to pvp than like 500vs500 with lag fest and zero fun, maybe is time to change this.

Sorry for my horrible grammar.

o7


league of legends is not an MMO /thread

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.

King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#32 - 2012-10-05 03:53:59 UTC
Eve is radically different from most other games these days. It is a hardcore MMO in a world of softcore casual ones like WoW and guild wars. Hardcore games always have smaller player bases. Another game I play is Rise of Flight, it's a hardcore combat flight sim (basically have to know how to fly the real thing to play it). I think it's player base is around 5k maybe. But it's been going strong with regular addons since 2009 with no end in sight.

You can see that type of thing in all the different genres. CoD and BF may dominate the sales in the FPS market, but ArmA 2 has had a longer shelf life than 3-4 incarnations of either one of those put together. Once again, smaller player base but far more committed to the game. And thus they buy more stuff for it to keep it going.

As for eve specifically, what drives most people away is the skill point system as it prevents power leveling over the course of a weekend as well as meaningful consequences to poor performance. If you die in guild wars, you respawn in town with all your stuff. The only thing you lose is the time you spent on that particular quest. If you die in eve, you lose everything you had on you (probably). This mechanic makes combat far more exciting, but it also means it is in fact possible to "lose" the game. That simply isn't the case with any other MMO I know of.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-10-05 07:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
not only that but comparatively EVE is much more attention-intensive to do right.

Yeah we have AFK miners. no one cares about them. Not even me. My time playing has seen a sharp drop in number of fucks given about the topic of gankers hungering for my blood on the (now rare) occasions I don't have anything better to do than mine.

The easiest way to make ISK takes a few months to train a character for. Yes, incursions. You can't spend 16 hours a day at your computer for five days and be showered with awesome. doesn't work. this is turnoff number 1.

Doing Mining, Trade and Industry. In order to really see the good profits you have to be aware of what's going on around you (player aggro makes getting jumped by a 4-pack of elites in WoW seem like a damn cakewalk when yer in a covetor), and if you just mine a load and hit sell mindlessly whenever you kiss the station you're losing money. Manufacturers who don't pay attention to costs pay more to build things than they can sell it for. oh, and the most profitable way to get the raw materiel is... mine it yourself. Oh and you have to learn to play the market, train skills that dont help you pewpew, etc. This is turnoff number 2

For the people who say "**** that sissy caebear ****, PEWPEWPEWPEWPEW!" there are consequences for failure. How many times do we routinely deal with bitchrants about "I was ganked! I got blobbed! I picked a fight and he was surrounded by cloaky bomber buddies! WAAAAAAAH!" There are consequences measured by your in-game wallet. You just lost your shiny superdeath battleship, you forgot to insure it and now all you can afford is a T1 cruiser hull and meta 3 guns with which to rebuild. Then you realize... no one cares. This is turnoff number 3.

Then you have the fact that in EVE, the sympathy level of most of the players approaches ZERO, unless you ask them the right questions on how to un-moron or de-newb yourself and improve your play. The sympathy level doesn't change, but I've found most people quite willing to help if your first comment on the subject isn't a cry for the WAAAAAAAHHHmbulance. Most MMO gamers are running between the age of 13 and 27. Most of them are used to instant gratification and a brutal system shocks the sanity out of them. This is turnoff number 4.

This is all the tip of the iceberg of why people don't like EVE the way they like League of Legends. Yes people voyeur watch LoL matches. No one watches EVE because if you don't know where to look you won't find anything exciting. Nobody wants to watch or hear me run numbers on whether or not a lowsec moon goo base would be worth the cost to set up or defend. I've seen city borough assembly meetings more exciting than that ****. But I, and everyone else, just don't care.

When I talk to people about EVE, now that I've spent some time correcting early failures in skill training, planning, etc I have to preface the conversation with the simple statement that (this is important) ***EVE online is a MMO game for grownups.*** The level of effort required is much higher, but the payout in fun or ISK or whatever is awesome. Because let's face it. What do EVE players want?

It sure isn't a legendary sword found on the supermobboss that spawns once a week for you to farm. It most certainly isn't a rare-drop sabretooth tiger mount that you can show off to your guildie buddies for E-Peen and a couple hundred gold coins in the pocket. To an EVE player, a hardcore EVE player, that is pathetic. not even worth discussing on the radar. We don't want a goddamned chibi diablo vanity pet.

Real EVE players want to command ships that dwarf modern warships. Real EVE players want to set up infrastructure arrays that lead to one station and then dozens cranking out fleets of warships. Real EVE players want to then take those warships out into space and kill each other with them and fight for real, tangible (within the context of the game) measurable gains. Not just battle in static battlegrounds to get epix gearz by grinding faction points for months in a manner that has no affect and meaning on the game at large.

When it boils down to basics EVE players, and the pure carebears who don't brave the depths of null ore low for ANY reason don't count in this statement. I am no longer one of the Highsec only people. It's obnoxiously boring if that's all you do.

Real EVE players are going to start a war. Because that's what EVE is ultimately. EVE is a big war that ranges from hot to cold, and includes everything from one on one combat to market manipulation to psychological warfare perpetrated within the game.

No other game has that, and most MMO players don't have the patience to do more than quickly spam four hotkeys to launch their most potent attacks.

Oh and the Highsecers who refuse to set foot into low and null have fallen victim to the psychological warfare that has been going on for YEARS in low and null. If you are convinced you can't win you've become simply one more sheep for the wolves to pick off. Giving the mining barges a bigger tank and more EHP isn't going to save them if they won't fit a tank. If they won't pay attention. Chronic Highsec can't win because they gave up fighting before they started fighting.

I give it six months, tops, until some enterprising maniac figures out a way to start making highsec exhumers explode again with frightening consistency. It's one of the fascinating things about EVE players. in normal MMOs you apply a certain tactic vigorously until it works. EVE gankers will find a way. they always have.

EVE is a game for grownups.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#34 - 2012-10-05 08:58:58 UTC
I would say the opposite is true and EVE is actually a quite popular game. Most MMOs that I play have may be 20-30 servers with little more than a thousand people on them maybe up to 2000 at prime time for the busiest servers and 1500 for less popular ones. The thing is we can interact with all 40000 people while other mmos you get 2000. EVE as also been aroud for almost 10 years now and is still growing and changing. Not mant MMOs can tout that tag. It has an addon coming out that is on the PS3 and is a completely different genre than the core game. Does WOW do that?

No, I think EVE is doing just fine and will continue to provide fun for years to come.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#35 - 2012-10-05 09:12:21 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Not mant MMOs can tout that tag. It has an addon coming out that is on the PS3 and is a completely different genre than the core game. Does WOW do that?


No WoW doesn't do that because they are smart. Hence why they have had millions of customers across multiple games, and Blizzard is considered one of the top development companies. Though the rest of your comment is mostly true.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Krakhen
Praetors of Orpheus
#36 - 2012-10-05 11:36:30 UTC
I play LoL but you really can't compare it with Eve. That is like comparing microwave-ready meals with a somptuously prepared 8 course diner. The first is fast and grants instant gratification for not a lot of efforts while the second takes planning and requires skills time and finess to master, if ever.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#37 - 2012-10-05 11:38:10 UTC
Lol... Is what I play to wind down from Eve... It's an Easy Pvp Game, good laugh and bit of fun.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Wacktopia
Noir.
The Network.
#38 - 2012-10-05 12:19:59 UTC
Judging on how many people watch a video is difficult. EVE does not always come across well on video unless it is very well shot and edited, often requiring with narration. Some of the best game videos I have seen are EVE-related but they all share a common factor; high attention to editing and production.

Part of this is down to the very hi-octane and un-arcade format of PVP. If you stop for a few seconds to try and shoot some cool video you'll probably be dead with half your corp screaming at you. Also, a lot of EVE engagements occur with your camera zoomed out so you can see what is going on around you.

In contrast, other mmo's or FPS game are focused on a single character in a format that most people watching can relate to. Shooting a good video is easer too and in many of these games dying is no big deal so you can afford to stand around shooting video and not have to worry about the impact of being killed.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Nrazza
Liquid Words
#39 - 2012-10-05 12:51:28 UTC
It's because eve is incredibly boring to watch and play. The only thing that saves it is being with a corp on TS3 and cracking jokes on each other. Also peek time has 40k plus peeps but everybody has atleast another alt online some people have 3-4 online and maybe more for logistics issues.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#40 - 2012-10-05 13:19:43 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Because more people don't mean a better game. I would rather EVE keep its current sub numbers forever than double it by adding LoL players.

As to the "why": EVE is a niche game. It's not a game you can jump in for an evening, have some fun, and then just leave. It's not particularly fun to watch. Victories are not achieved through quick and flashy 20-minute match, they come through days, weeks, and months of strategically planned engagements. EVE caters specifically to "hardcore" gamers, generally with plenty of time to invest, and offers high-risk large group PvP experience with severe consequences. (And then I suppose the niche within a niche of various miners, "highsec players", solo PvP, and whoever else trying to convince themselves that the core principles of EVE should be compromised for their enjoyment.)


Perfect summary of EVE (and the highlighted part is a perfect summary of people I dislike lol).