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Convo request spamming - why isn't this an exploit?

First post
Author
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#81 - 2012-10-04 16:33:21 UTC
How is that relevant?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#82 - 2012-10-04 16:37:53 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
How is that relevant?
Hypocrisy.

“Since we lost big for unrelated reasons but can conceivably blame it on this tactic that we've been using ourselves, we will now change our minds and call our old tactic deplorable.”
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#83 - 2012-10-04 16:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
I got that, but I don't think it weakens the arguments made against convobombing

e: it's even in the first line of the op "quite often I've heard in large fleets"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#84 - 2012-10-04 16:44:00 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I got that, but I don't think it weakens the arguments made against convobombing
No, it just puts the OP's motivations into question.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#85 - 2012-10-04 16:50:25 UTC
I don't really care about his motivation. He likely has bias but is offering some objective arguments. Marlona likely has equal bias but isn't providing or addressing any arguments.

I still think this is an unfair way to fight, I think it should be an considered against EULA along with dropping a million shuttles out of an Orca.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#86 - 2012-10-04 17:06:13 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Serious question for you James Amril-Kesh,

If you view convo spamming someone as being so bad, so against the law, so terrible. Why are you waiting till now to make this thread when your own main FC has been telling you guys to convo bomb Elo Knight for over a month now, maybe two. Why now bring it up? Why didn't you make this thread a long time ago?

Answer me that.

Also everyone else needs to please note that the battle where Razor lost 19 carriers iirc and a CSAA was in fact lost due to terrible placement of the carriers and the fact that they were only able to be cap stable for about two minutes before capping out, thus unable to rep. Anyone can go to the kill boards, plug in the fits they used on EFT and see in cold hard truth, they were terribly fit.

But yeah, answer the bolded questions James. We will all wait.


Because it's only an issue when it's used against you.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-10-04 17:42:42 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I don't really care about his motivation. He likely has bias but is offering some objective arguments. Marlona likely has equal bias but isn't providing or addressing any arguments.

You should always inquire about someone's motive. So about me addressing his argument.

Ignoring the fact the CFC have been using this tactic for a while now, ignoring the fact being convo bombed has not been proven to disconnect a players client, ignoring the fact the reason their carriers were obliterated because they were not cap stable and ignoring the fact checking a simple box stops convo bombing dead in its tracks...

I would suggest that there be two boxes to check. One for convos and one for fleet invites. Also there should be a fleet icon to accompany the invite to fleet message and a chat icon for convo invites. Also when a cling is invited to a fleet/convo, while the window is up the player client should tell the server to hold all further invites in a queue on the sever side, not the client. Once the invite is cleared via close or accept, then the players client request the next invite from the queue on the server.

Of course I'm no computer programmer so I don't know if that would help at all or perhaps this is the way it is handled anyways. All I know is I find the motivation by the OP and his buddies for these threads to be driven solely because they made several mistakes that cost them to lose a carrier fleet several support fleets and a baby titan.

Trying to blame all that on convo bombing hoping their enemies are banned and all their ships and titan are replaced is asinine.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-10-04 19:10:15 UTC
Really I swear we're just trying to ask enemy cap pilots if they could be tempted with a BLT.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#89 - 2012-10-04 21:45:34 UTC
Open Eve-mail window (Alt-I), right click to open the Settings popup, choose "Block unknown characters". All done, let them spam away. Do this when you're flying your capital ship or your cloaky - since those are usually the ships that get convo-spammed.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-10-04 22:11:08 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?

lol



So many fleet fights won/lost thx to this, but it's like gate camping: elite pvp, you do it because you're smarter than those idiots you kill.

Roll

Darwin is getting out of pills/drugs/alcohol trying to forget some stuff.

brb

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2012-10-04 22:44:59 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Why are you waiting till now to make this thread when your own main FC has been telling you guys to convo bomb Elo Knight for over a month now, maybe two. Why now bring it up? Why didn't you make this thread a long time ago?

Which main FC would that be? I can only recall one instance in which I was in fleet and told to convo bomb the other fleet's FC. I refused to do it at the time, and it simply didn't occur to me to make a thread about it.

Marlona Sky wrote:
Also everyone else needs to please note that the battle where Razor lost 19 carriers iirc and a CSAA was in fact lost due to terrible placement of the carriers and the fact that they were only able to be cap stable for about two minutes before capping out, thus unable to rep. Anyone can go to the kill boards, plug in the fits they used on EFT and see in cold hard truth, they were terribly fit.

That doesn't change the fact that they were convo bombed causing their clients to crash. It doesn't matter if the outcome would have been the same had you not done this. It doesn't matter who's done it in the past. I didn't condone it then, and I don't condone it now.


Why didn't I make a thread about it earlier? To be quite honest, my killboard will tell you that I simply haven't been all that active in the Tribute war, and I wasn't aware of how widespread this "tactic" was until recently, and it took a particularly egregious use of it to really get my attention.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-10-04 22:51:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Ignoring the fact the CFC have been using this tactic for a while now, ignoring the fact being convo bombed has not been proven to disconnect a players client,

Why do it if it doesn't work? These points are in contradiction.

Marlona Sky wrote:
ignoring the fact the reason their carriers were obliterated because they were not cap stable and ignoring the fact checking a simple box stops convo bombing dead in its tracks...

The first point is irrelevant to the discussion. The second point I've addressed earlier, several times. I'd suggest you go back and read the first post more carefully.

Marlona Sky wrote:
All I know is I find the motivation by the OP and his buddies for these threads to be driven solely because they made several mistakes that cost them to lose a carrier fleet several support fleets and a baby titan.

I won't deny that that is what brought my attention to it.

Marlona Sky wrote:
Trying to blame all that on convo bombing hoping their enemies are banned and all their ships and titan are replaced is asinine.

Notice how I named no specifics at all, and the first person to bring up the RAZOR fleet is in fact yourself.
I'm not interested in getting anyone banned or ships reimbursed, partially because that would be extremely impractical to retroactively find out which losses were caused by this and who is responsible, and partially because as I've said previously both sides are culpable. If you were banned for doing this, then frankly DBRB would too.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#93 - 2012-10-04 23:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Hi there,

We've had some internal discussion about this and spoken to the GM team.

If you feel that people are trying to affect the performance or stability of your client, then you are always able to petition it and the GM team will investigate and deal with it appropriately.

Thread has been cleaned up now.

Thanks and fly safe.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-10-05 00:34:04 UTC
Thank you for letting this thread stay open, and for discussing it with the GM team.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#95 - 2012-10-05 00:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi there,

We've had some internal discussion about this and spoken to the GM team.

If you feel that people are trying to affect the performance or stability of your client, then you are always able to petition it and the GM team will investigate and deal with it appropriately.

Thread has been cleaned up now.

Thanks and fly safe.

OOC, if you experience lag and your client crashes in a fleet fight, does this indicate you should always suspect convo bombing and report it to the GM's?

Because the truth is it almost always happens during tidi, where there will be a lot of DC's and lag due to fleet fighting anyway.

I'm just wondering if there are any indications, if players have convo requests set to be automatically blocked, that might clue a player in?

Maybe the block should be server-side?Idea

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-10-05 00:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Darth Gustav wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi there,

We've had some internal discussion about this and spoken to the GM team.

If you feel that people are trying to affect the performance or stability of your client, then you are always able to petition it and the GM team will investigate and deal with it appropriately.

Thread has been cleaned up now.

Thanks and fly safe.

OOC, if you experience lag and your client crashes in a fleet fight, does this indicate you should always suspect convo bombing and report it to the GM's?

Because the truth is it almost always happens during tidi, where there will be a lot of DC's and lag due to fleet fighting anyway.

I'm just wondering if there are any indications, if players have convo requests automatically set to be automatically blocked, that might clue a player in?

Maybe the block should be server-side?Idea

If you're completely unimportant, chances are you weren't being convo bombed.

But if you were, say, FC, anchor, on-grid booster, logi anchor, or a triage carrier, the possibility is somewhat higher.

Blocking conversation requests server-side would also take care of this problem.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#97 - 2012-10-05 00:54:18 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi there,

We've had some internal discussion about this and spoken to the GM team.

If you feel that people are trying to affect the performance or stability of your client, then you are always able to petition it and the GM team will investigate and deal with it appropriately.

Thread has been cleaned up now.

Thanks and fly safe.

OOC, if you experience lag and your client crashes in a fleet fight, does this indicate you should always suspect convo bombing and report it to the GM's?

Because the truth is it almost always happens during tidi, where there will be a lot of DC's and lag due to fleet fighting anyway.

I'm just wondering if there are any indications, if players have convo requests automatically set to be automatically blocked, that might clue a player in?

Maybe the block should be server-side?Idea

If you're completely unimportant, chances are you weren't being convo bombed.

But if you were, say, FC, anchor, on-grid booster, logi anchor, or a triage carrier, the possibility is somewhat higher.

Blocking conversation requests server-side would also take care of this problem.

So you're saying there's no way anybody would know except to leave themselves completely vulnerable to the attack.

Yes, it seems like this needs to be looked at more closely before "internal discussion" becomes policy, because I can see a new wave of "petitions" coming from every last member of any null fleet who disco's during a fleet fight because there's a reasonable possibility they were convo bombed. DPS are people, too. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#98 - 2012-10-05 00:57:16 UTC
Hi,

Speaking as a player and in no way officially, I would say it's pretty obvious to know if you're convo -bombed because ... you know ... all the conversation requests that appear ?

Then again, it's not ever happened to me - I may just not be important enough Pirate

As I've said, if you suspect foul play then the GMs say it's ok to petition them!

Thanks and fly safe.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#99 - 2012-10-05 00:58:04 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi,

Speaking as a player and in no way officially, I would say it's pretty obvious to know if you're convo -bombed because ... you know ... all the conversation requests that appear ?

Then again, it's not ever happened to me - I may just not be important enough Pirate

As I've said, if you suspect foul play then the GMs say it's ok to petition them!

Thanks and fly safe.

If you have them blocked they don't appear. Then it just looks like any other lag case, right?

Or were you being obtuse?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#100 - 2012-10-05 01:08:36 UTC
Hi Gustav,

Not intentionally; I don't have many people blocked anyway.

This is why it's best to take it to the GMs though - they can see the server logs and would know explicitly what has happened.

Again, speaking just as a player, here the rules are quite specific, with regards the Terms of use.

In particular point 16:
You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

If you suspect blocked people are breaching that ruling, then again the GMs are the people who will know for sure.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]