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SHIP CONTROL
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Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#1 - 2012-10-04 00:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard C Riddick
Hello I would like to see full ship control. With the W A S D keys lots of games use this so why not. And I think it would be great if we could have a cockpit view and walking in ships. Well the ones big enough to walk in anyway what do you think. anyone ?
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#2 - 2012-10-04 00:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexila Quant
I'm probably posting in a troll thread but I'll bite.

I'll break your post down into 3 parts: WASD Controls, Walking in ships, and Cockpit view.


Part 1:

WASD controls have been suggested numerous times and every time they have shot down. The overarching reason being that a server with 50,000 people online at once is hard enough when it only has to process general directional commands for each ship. Imagine if the server had to process each individual twitch and movement of a joystick or the tap of a movement key.

Part 2:

Simple: Who flys the ship while you're dicking around in the lounge?

/seriousface
According to game lore, you are a pod pilot in a vat of goo that feeds you information about the ship's vitals and things of the like. Getting out of your pod mid-flight would be kind of pointless as you would lose control of the ship and regaining control isn't so simple as sitting back down in a chair.

Part 3:

Cockpit views wouldn't work for much the same reason as walking in ships. You are suspended in a capsule filled with goo.

If this was an argument for first person camera views it would be different. as your view is already technically first person (if memory serves me correctly) your ship has a small camera orbiting it who's images are projected to you within the pod.

If you would like to play a game with twitch WASD movement and a cockpit view go buy X3 on steam. The concept just doesn't really work (or fit) in eve.

Edited for afterthoughts
Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#3 - 2012-10-04 00:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard C Riddick
where are you getting the pod full of goo from Id like to read that. just looks like an escape pod to me in station.
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#4 - 2012-10-04 00:59:13 UTC
Richard C Riddick wrote:
where are you getting the pod full of goo from Id like to read that. just looks like an escape pod to me in station.



It's old EVE lore. Not sure where I read it. A google search would probably do you good.
Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#5 - 2012-10-04 01:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard C Riddick
Ok I read it yup pod full of goo. lol Anyway I think its time for a change. And as for the WASD like I sed other games can do it EVE can to. I work shift work and played at all different times and most of the time theres only around 25 to 30 k players but I have see 45 k some times. As far as the one big universe thing every system is an instance and most dont have anyone in them. And the server dosent have to process each individual twitch your PC dose the server just renders it. If the server had to do all the work it would be a brouser baced game with no download . Im not mad this is just talk.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-10-04 01:46:56 UTC
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Ok I read it yup pod full of goo. lol Anyway I think its time for a change. And as for the WASD like I sed other games can do it EVE can to. I work shift work and played at all different times and most of the time theres only around 25 to 30 k players but I have see 45 k some times. As far as the one big universe thing every system is an instance and most dont have anyone in them.

Those games also aren't geared to handle 10k players in one place at the same time.

Your idea would also require a SERIOUS (read: total and complete rebuild) overhaul of the game's netcode, which only processes commands once a second atm.
Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#7 - 2012-10-04 01:52:22 UTC
I dont think it would be that bad just an expansion.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2012-10-04 02:27:10 UTC
The eve client runs on 1 second ticks i believe..

So this would never really work.



Also this idea has been proposed half a billion times, use the search function.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-10-04 02:29:50 UTC
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm probably posting in a troll thread but I'll bite.

I'll break your post down into 3 parts: WASD Controls, Walking in ships, and Cockpit view.


Part 1:

WASD controls have been suggested numerous times and every time they have shot down. The overarching reason being that a server with 50,000 people online at once is hard enough when it only has to process general directional commands for each ship. Imagine if the server had to process each individual twitch and movement of a joystick or the tap of a movement key.

Part 2:

Simple: Who flys the ship while you're dicking around in the lounge?

/seriousface
According to game lore, you are a pod pilot in a vat of goo that feeds you information about the ship's vitals and things of the like. Getting out of your pod mid-flight would be kind of pointless as you would lose control of the ship and regaining control isn't so simple as sitting back down in a chair.

Part 3:

Cockpit views wouldn't work for much the same reason as walking in ships. You are suspended in a capsule filled with goo.

If this was an argument for first person camera views it would be different. as your view is already technically first person (if memory serves me correctly) your ship has a small camera orbiting it who's images are projected to you within the pod.

If you would like to play a game with twitch WASD movement and a cockpit view go buy X3 on steam. The concept just doesn't really work (or fit) in eve.

Edited for afterthoughts



You're right, What the player sees on the screen is the same thing the EVE capsuler sees.

also the walking in ships thing is a common idea that comes from people thinking capsuler ships having crew members, they don't. When a capsuler is linked to a ship he IS the ship. The ships sensors become his senses and everything in it responds to his will.

Its part of the reason they are considered demigods along with the immortality thing.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#10 - 2012-10-04 02:33:35 UTC
Well if it proposed half a billion times then they should do it. If thats what the players want.
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#11 - 2012-10-04 03:04:27 UTC
We also want super.death machines that launch rocket powered fist.and one hits a titan...sigh
Luc Chastot
#12 - 2012-10-04 03:05:28 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm probably posting in a troll thread but I'll bite.

I'll break your post down into 3 parts: WASD Controls, Walking in ships, and Cockpit view.


Part 1:

WASD controls have been suggested numerous times and every time they have shot down. The overarching reason being that a server with 50,000 people online at once is hard enough when it only has to process general directional commands for each ship. Imagine if the server had to process each individual twitch and movement of a joystick or the tap of a movement key.

Part 2:

Simple: Who flys the ship while you're dicking around in the lounge?

/seriousface
According to game lore, you are a pod pilot in a vat of goo that feeds you information about the ship's vitals and things of the like. Getting out of your pod mid-flight would be kind of pointless as you would lose control of the ship and regaining control isn't so simple as sitting back down in a chair.

Part 3:

Cockpit views wouldn't work for much the same reason as walking in ships. You are suspended in a capsule filled with goo.

If this was an argument for first person camera views it would be different. as your view is already technically first person (if memory serves me correctly) your ship has a small camera orbiting it who's images are projected to you within the pod.

If you would like to play a game with twitch WASD movement and a cockpit view go buy X3 on steam. The concept just doesn't really work (or fit) in eve.

Edited for afterthoughts



You're right, What the player sees on the screen is the same thing the EVE capsuler sees.

also the walking in ships thing is a common idea that comes from people thinking capsuler ships having crew members, they don't. When a capsuler is linked to a ship he IS the ship. The ships sensors become his senses and everything in it responds to his will.

Its part of the reason they are considered demigods along with the immortality thing.



Untrue. Capsuleer ships have crews.

This: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94953

And this: http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=20-04-09

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Hecate Shaw
United Freemerchants Society
#13 - 2012-10-04 03:18:22 UTC
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Well if it proposed half a billion times then they should do it. If thats what the players want.
So...fundamentally rewrite the most basic functions of the game, change ALL of the basic coding and entity handling, and screw with "story" continuity, just because someone occasionally comes on the forums (often just before or after cancelling their accounts) and wants WASD? And you think it can be done as an expansion? There are plenty of twitch games out there, sir, kindly don't expect them to cast aside the basic game systems just for you.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-10-04 03:21:12 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Alexila Quant wrote:
I'm probably posting in a troll thread but I'll bite.

I'll break your post down into 3 parts: WASD Controls, Walking in ships, and Cockpit view.


Part 1:

WASD controls have been suggested numerous times and every time they have shot down. The overarching reason being that a server with 50,000 people online at once is hard enough when it only has to process general directional commands for each ship. Imagine if the server had to process each individual twitch and movement of a joystick or the tap of a movement key.

Part 2:

Simple: Who flys the ship while you're dicking around in the lounge?

/seriousface
According to game lore, you are a pod pilot in a vat of goo that feeds you information about the ship's vitals and things of the like. Getting out of your pod mid-flight would be kind of pointless as you would lose control of the ship and regaining control isn't so simple as sitting back down in a chair.

Part 3:

Cockpit views wouldn't work for much the same reason as walking in ships. You are suspended in a capsule filled with goo.

If this was an argument for first person camera views it would be different. as your view is already technically first person (if memory serves me correctly) your ship has a small camera orbiting it who's images are projected to you within the pod.

If you would like to play a game with twitch WASD movement and a cockpit view go buy X3 on steam. The concept just doesn't really work (or fit) in eve.

Edited for afterthoughts



You're right, What the player sees on the screen is the same thing the EVE capsuler sees.

also the walking in ships thing is a common idea that comes from people thinking capsuler ships having crew members, they don't. When a capsuler is linked to a ship he IS the ship. The ships sensors become his senses and everything in it responds to his will.

Its part of the reason they are considered demigods along with the immortality thing.

All capsule fitted vessels larger than destroyers have crew.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ships_%28technology%29
(go down to the "internal functions" part)
Also here:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ship_crew
Engineers are present as crew aboard some vessels, including capsuleer-piloted ships.
Richard C Riddick
XConvicts
#15 - 2012-10-04 03:25:20 UTC
Hecate Shaw wrote:
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Well if it proposed half a billion times then they should do it. If thats what the players want.
So...fundamentally rewrite the most basic functions of the game, change ALL of the basic coding and entity handling, and screw with "story" continuity, just because someone occasionally comes on the forums (often just before or after cancelling their accounts) and wants WASD? And you think it can be done as an expansion? There are plenty of twitch games out there, sir, kindly don't expect them to cast aside the basic game systems just for you.

Yes and I like EVE and dont plan to leave just want more.
kerradeph
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-10-04 06:34:25 UTC
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Hecate Shaw wrote:
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Well if it proposed half a billion times then they should do it. If thats what the players want.
So...fundamentally rewrite the most basic functions of the game, change ALL of the basic coding and entity handling, and screw with "story" continuity, just because someone occasionally comes on the forums (often just before or after cancelling their accounts) and wants WASD? And you think it can be done as an expansion? There are plenty of twitch games out there, sir, kindly don't expect them to cast aside the basic game systems just for you.

Yes and I like EVE and dont plan to leave just want more.

this really sounds like you don't get what's going on. it's like saying some game like WoW or everquest should be turned into a turn based game for part of an expansion. it's not possible without rebuilding the entire game.
if you want the things you are asking for, go play STO, it's free to play, has WASD controls, and lets you run around in your ship.
also, in eve lore, there's only ever been one ship with the capability for the pilot to leave their pod while in flight, it was an amarr science ship designed for long duration deep space exploration and recovery. there was one pilot, and everything else was done by highly intelligent drones. it also made the cost of a titan look insignificant, and dwarfed a titan fairly easily as well.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#17 - 2012-10-04 06:52:44 UTC
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Hello I would like to see full ship control. With the W A S D keys lots of games use this so why not. And I think it would be great if we could have a cockpit view and walking in ships. Well the ones big enough to walk in anyway what do you think. anyone ?


Manual flying is already available, and, at least in smaller ships, contributes greatly to your effectiveness in combat. Twitch controls are problematic as noted previously in the thread and wouldn't really add anything, considering that very few of the ships are anywhere near maneuverable enough to take advantage of them (the smallest frigates in the game are around the size of a 747).
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#18 - 2012-10-04 14:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexila Quant
Richard C Riddick wrote:
Ok I read it yup pod full of goo. lol Anyway I think its time for a change. And as for the WASD like I sed other games can do it EVE can to. I work shift work and played at all different times and most of the time theres only around 25 to 30 k players but I have see 45 k some times. As far as the one big universe thing every system is an instance and most dont have anyone in them.



Number of players online on average doesn't matter. You have to take peak times into account at all times when implementing something that would drastically increase server load. Also, to your comment that other games can do it, EVE isn't other games. No other game has 30-50k people online on the same server (cluster). Also, there's no real place for WASD controls in EVE. The game just doesn't play that way. Regardless of how many people are on one instance it still increases the server and CPU load per player drastically. Like I said, there's no place for it in EVE, it would be another one of those features that would suck up so much development time and create a lot more load on the server for no real significant reason.


Quote:

Ok I read it yup pod full of goo. lol Anyway I think its time for a change.

Yeah okay. We'll just change the entire back story and lore of the game to implement something that is purely cosmetic and has no real need or purpose, THEN we'll proceed to fundamentally rewrite the entire game and change the game mechanics completely.
Not to be a **** or anything, but that was by far the stupidest comment I've ever read.

inb4 Late response

Like I said. Go play X3 if you want all of that ****. You won't (and should not ever) get it in Eve.
Crispin McTarmac
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-10-04 15:15:28 UTC
Did you ever watch that film "surrogates" with bruce willis? I'm sure capsuleer technology could integrate something like that. Instead of talking to your crew through the intercom you can control a robotic homonculus which walks around the ship giving orders and pushing buttons and watching blinky lights on your behalf. After all, these ships were clearly designed to be walked around- almost all of them have at least some indication of a bridge or a cockpit, and some even suggest an almost skyscraper-like internal arrangement.

The real answer as to why we don't walk around inside spaceships is art. It would require a shitton of artist man-hours to make satisfying interiors for every ship, certainly way more than it's worth right now. Perhaps after another decade things will be different
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#20 - 2012-10-04 15:29:03 UTC
Until they add in real projectile physics there is no point to being able to twitch the controls.

Maneuverability is only critical if you can dodge incoming fire and hide behind things bigger than you.
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