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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#501 - 2011-10-17 13:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr R4nd0m
White Tree wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?


I didn't say the CSM weren't to be trusted at all. I'm saying the CSM are politicians, you may apply whatever your personal perception of politicians is to that at your will, that's your responsibility, not mine.


Well you seem to be wholeheartedly happy that people are getting scammed by certain members of the CSM.

Let me ask you it in another way.

1) Do you believe that the CSM hold a position of 'trust' with the eve player base?
2) If yes, then do you believe that by holding that position of trust, should allow you to take advantage of that, to scam people
3) If no, then you are saying that the CSM are not to be trusted.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#502 - 2011-10-17 13:03:13 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Why dont you try read the forums.
Already doing that.

Now, about those questions:
Where's the abuse?
How is it connected to his “position of trust”?

Why are they so hard for you to answer? Is it because there is no abuse? Is it because it (whatever “it” is) is not connected to his “position of trust”?
Quote:
also 730 likes to this post, i think it proves the support this is getting.
You mean those 41 that agree with your OP? No, it doesn't show that much. That's about 1% of the readers of the thread.


Hmm Tippia give you some advice, I know its hard for you, and I understand your probably 12 years old. But go to the front page of General Discussion. Got it? Right Now look at the 'Likes' for this post.. got it? Can you read that?

I think you should stop your looking stupid now..


Advice, OP:

Learn the difference between "your" and "you're," and when to use 'em, before calling someone else a 12 year old. Because you're the one that looks not just aged 12, but also illiterate, which makes your over-entitled whinging ranting look even more pitiful, which is saying something.

Hey, you'll thank me for it later, luv:

Trust me, you'll need all the microscopic, most tangential shreds of credibility you can possibly muster after this.

As utterly repellent as I find Mittani, and indeed, most of this go-around's CSM--for nothing to do with scamming or ganking, by the way--even I can, at long last, respect--grudgingly. Very grudgingly--the 'Swarm again, at least for now.

This has been good for EVE, despite Mittens' brazen credit-whoring hypocrisy.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#503 - 2011-10-17 13:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?



You don't trust other EVE Players (or alts...)
the CSM are EVE Players

Therefore, don't trust the CSM.

works fine for me, and I'll still vote for the one who most solidly shares my views. Or at least says they do at the time of the elections...

edit --> as with other eve players, I just expect them to stab me in the back at some point.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#504 - 2011-10-17 13:03:58 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?

No we're all basically scum. We've actually been compared to the Reich several times completely casually. You stay classy EVE-O.


Cripes. Don't tell anyone I have a house in Germany. Shocked

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#505 - 2011-10-17 13:05:04 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?
No we're all basically scum. We've actually been compared to the Reich several times completely casually. You stay classy EVE-O.
Look, we all know you guys made faustian deals to get on the CSM and that the amount of baby-eating you did is directly proportional to the number of votes you got.

So really, the only question is: which works best, HP sauce or ketchup?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#506 - 2011-10-17 13:05:23 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


You have not answered these two fundamental questions...You need to give a response.


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?


It is very simple. If mittens were, say, posting an "official CSM chairman 3rd party service" and using that to scam, that would be crossing a line. That isn't what is happening here.

This thread is about angry people who got suicide ganked, despite the fact that the goons proclaimed loudly exactly where they would be ganking.

If you want extra rules to apply to CSM members, you need to raise that as a proposal and have it go through the CSM process. You also can't change the rules after the fact, as I am sure some CSM members would not have agreed to run if they weren't allowed to scam or suicide gank or whatever you guys get angry about next.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#507 - 2011-10-17 13:06:02 UTC
When you elect assholes in order to have them be assholes for your cause, don't be too stunned when they in fact turn out to be assholes.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#508 - 2011-10-17 13:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: VaMei
Botleten wrote:
How dare he use a sandbox MMO as if it were a sandbox!!!! CURSE YOU EVIL GOONIES!!

Seriously dude, did you huff paint before you wrote this? Do you even realize what game you're playing?


My feelings exactly. You can love what the Goonies are doing, or you can hate it, but what they have been doing only goes to prove that the Eve I started playing years ago is alive and well and the old rules of Eve are still in full force:

1. You are never safe in Eve. Not in hi-sec, not even while docked. Someone is always out to get your isk, your ass, or both.
2. Never undock flying or carrying anything you can't afford to lose. Every time you undock, assume you are going to lose your ship, your cargo and your pod. Anything else is a good day.
3. Trust no one you can't punch in the face IRL. Everyone else is a thief, a spy, or a traitor. Even with the most honest players, it's only a question of their price.
4. If your game experience was ruined by someone else’s actions, see rules 1 through 3, and suck it up.

This is a sandbox game. CCP gives us the sandbox and the toys we play with. Within the limits of CCPs sandbox, we make the rules, we make the game, and we create the content. Love it or hate it, the Goonies are giving us content that people will remember for years to come.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#509 - 2011-10-17 13:07:00 UTC
Two step wrote:

If you want extra rules to apply to CSM members, you need to raise that as a proposal and have it go through the CSM process. You also can't change the rules after the fact, as I am sure some CSM members would not have agreed to run if they weren't allowed to scam or suicide gank or whatever you guys get angry about next.



wasn't it Darius III who was using scamming and suicide ganks to get votes?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Psilocin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#510 - 2011-10-17 13:08:50 UTC
Seleene wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?

No we're all basically scum. We've actually been compared to the Reich several times completely casually. You stay classy EVE-O.


Cripes. Don't tell anyone I have a house in Germany. Shocked


Were you born in Brazil, by any chance?
Gheng Kondur
Serva Fidem
#511 - 2011-10-17 13:09:00 UTC
Think the OP and others are missing some distinctions here.

Can the Mittani, leader of the Goons be trusted in game? No unless you are another Goon. But that goes for all CSM members and in fact everybody else in game you don't have a reason to trust.

Can the Mittani, elected CSM member be trusted in that role? Yes, he may not represent my views but he certainly represents a huge voting chunk who got him there.

Can the Mittani the real life man be trusted? Who knows, I don't know him. Got no reason to believe he can't though.

You need to seperate "in game" from the CSM role and RL.

If you can't understand the difference you play this far too much. If he abused the role for 'in game' advantage, and that could be shown, I would support this thread. But as it can't and everything I've seen him do in the CSM role has been from what he feels need to be done for the good of the game, I can't support this.

The CSM will never please all of the people all of the time, that's life in any democracy where the constituents are individuals with different views and opinions. Live with it or go move to a dictorship.
Vaffel Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2011-10-17 13:09:24 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?


Dont eat babies.... i guess they taste like poo....
Steal their candy
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#513 - 2011-10-17 13:10:47 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

'assume' makes an ass out of u (and not me, because I'm not that damn naive)

The role of the CSM is to pass player concerns onto CCP, based on their personal experience with the game. Short of keeping NDA'd material to themselves it is not a position of trust, and CSM reps do not owe you a thing:

Quote:
Also, players with a serious warning or ban on any account in their possession
can be excluded from candidate eligibility. However, in-game behavior, regardless
of play style, will never be a criterion for candidacy unless the rules of the EULA
and/or TOS are violated.


Feel free to prove me wrong with this http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#514 - 2011-10-17 13:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: WhyTry1
Two step wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


You have not answered these two fundamental questions...You need to give a response.


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?


It is very simple. If mittens were, say, posting an "official CSM chairman 3rd party service" and using that to scam, that would be crossing a line. That isn't what is happening here.

This thread is about angry people who got suicide ganked, despite the fact that the goons proclaimed loudly exactly where they would be ganking.

If you want extra rules to apply to CSM members, you need to raise that as a proposal and have it go through the CSM process. You also can't change the rules after the fact, as I am sure some CSM members would not have agreed to run if they weren't allowed to scam or suicide gank or whatever you guys get angry about next.



Wow, just wow, you really believe that stuff your saying? He doesnt have to make a big sign saying that - people know hes the chair.or part of the CSM, that goes for any CSM member..

People will AUTOMATICALLY trust him, I think the question has been asked, but no ones give an answer,

You are basically saying - the csm cannot be trusted.... i think thats all we need to know... perhaps this thread can be locked now...

nail - coffin.....
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2011-10-17 13:11:22 UTC
Love2MurderPubs

Former member of CSM6.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#516 - 2011-10-17 13:12:31 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
Two step wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


You have not answered these two fundamental questions...You need to give a response.


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?


It is very simple. If mittens were, say, posting an "official CSM chairman 3rd party service" and using that to scam, that would be crossing a line. That isn't what is happening here.

This thread is about angry people who got suicide ganked, despite the fact that the goons proclaimed loudly exactly where they would be ganking.

If you want extra rules to apply to CSM members, you need to raise that as a proposal and have it go through the CSM process. You also can't change the rules after the fact, as I am sure some CSM members would not have agreed to run if they weren't allowed to scam or suicide gank or whatever you guys get angry about next.



Wow, just wow, you really believe that stuff your saying? He doesnt have to make a big sign saying that - people know hes the chair.or part of the CSM, that goes for any CSM member..

People will AUTOMATICALLY trust him, I think the question has been asked, but no ones give an answer,

You are basically saying - the csm cannot be trusted.... i think thats all we need to know...


CSM6 can be trusted to do its job as the CSM and our track record so far basically proves this. If you want more beyond this role then you're asking for something we're not obliged to provide.

Former member of CSM6.
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#517 - 2011-10-17 13:12:55 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Love2MurderPubs


Still like an answer please..
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#518 - 2011-10-17 13:13:05 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?


Hi Sel 0/

You all eat babies.

thanks,
Danks
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#519 - 2011-10-17 13:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cass Lie
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
I think personally I would like to know your answer to these questions...


What is this I don't even..

You got asked one single simple question. You answered with "if you had done done X, then that would be bad" and proceeded to blame White Tree for avoiding giving answers. Words, they fail me...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#520 - 2011-10-17 13:17:24 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
Wow, just wow, you really believe that stuff your saying? He doesnt have to make a big sign saying that - people know hes the chair.or part of the CSM, that goes for any CSM member..
Yes he does, or he's not abusing his position — you know, the supposed (but unproven) basis of the thread?
Quote:
People will AUTOMATICALLY trust him, I think the question has been asked, but no ones give an answer,
And why on earth is that a problem with the CSM and not with people making stupid decisions based on completely unrelated characteristics?
Quote:
You are basically saying - the csm cannot be trusted
No, he's saying that the CSM can be trusted to do CSM stuff. Goons can be trusted to do goon stuff (which makes them untrustworthy).

The problem is that some fools can't tell the two apart. They are unable to make the distinction between the in-game character of The Mittani, CEO of Goons, and the out-of-game person Alex, chair of the CSM.