EVE General Discussion

Another problem is that too many corps want their members to already have 5 or 10 million SP before they'll even consider entry. No one wants to train up recruits, or act as mentors. Everybody wants to play their own game their own way -- for being an MMO, EVE is probably the most solo-driven MMO I can think of. Everybody has an alt or two (or three, or ten). Lots of those big fleet battles out in null are actually being fought by about ten people, all told.

For any player under a million skillpoints, PVP simply means dying. A lot. Constantly. Which wouldn't be so bad, but precious little help is offered to teach the noob how to fix what went wrong. Yes, we've all heard the stories about how the magnanimous victors will tutor the defeated noob after the explosion to tell him what he did wrong, but in practice this is pretty rare. What usually happens is that the clueless noob gets popped, podded, and laughed at for flying a s**t-fit ship.

It takes about two months of training in order to get to a place where a new player can be truly useful in most roles, and feel comfortable enough to really go out and play the bigger game. But this is an enormous hill for many players to climb, especially those with families, jobs, and social lives. Telling a new player "Hey, two months from now this game will be awesome!" is a great way to get that player to say "The hell with it, I can have fun with some other game right now!"

It's also a brutal comedown to see those awesome space-battles in CCP's ads and on YouTube, and then find that actual combat in most cases involves shooting little red X's far off in the distance.

EVE UNI, Agony, and a few other corps have done good work in training new players, but then seem at something of a loss as to how to kick the players "out of the nest" so they can join other corps (or start their own).

The same recruitement apply in other MMO. Anyone can get in a fail guild in WoW for example but you won't accomplish anythign there just as you won't learn anything in the hundreds of freely recruiting EvE corps. It's not an EvE problem it's how people are. They mostly don't want to drag around people who can't perform to thier level as it slow them down.

They also can't look long terms it seems.

A lot of this could be solved by making PVE interesting and engaging. But within the current mechanics of the game I just don't see how that could happen.

Sounds good to me. I still think PvE has a place as basic drills like an army does. At least for the people who don't love mission running for itself.

If new players insist upon "living in high-sec" for their first two months, I usually recommend they train up trading and buy and sell faction ammo and modules. My advice is usually to haul them in small batches via destroyer, completing a circuit through all four trade hubs. Without much understanding of Eve's various meta-systems, a competent player can rack up a small fortune in two months doing this (or variations of it).

In my opinion the arbitage is good for Eve's economy as well, though others may debate this. So in this way, rookie players have the option to get rookie-space-rich to the betterment of everyone.

Allow people to buy characters pre-trained with core skills for plex or isk. Most serious new players do this anyway cos lol18 months of training and effectively not playing the game appeals only to spergers. CCP should just man up and provide a way for hundreds of thousands more people to enjoy and grow this game instead of playing the another-alt-vicar bs game.

yep, thats what i wondering about while i waiting my stupid 10+ day skills to be trained. I rather payed + 20 EUR to get a starter 2 million SP pack or something like that.

Agreed.... Insane.

Added to my list.

Agreed. Also don't see how it could be done.

I think it is entirely possible to get new players involved with PvP, but it requires a deliberate corp mindset that is somewhat counter to how most PvP corporations operate.

The biggest hurdle in my mind, is that Eve is a complicated game. There is a lot to learn on ANY subject, and few players (including veterans) actuallty know it all. This is what makes Eve what it is, it's what helps keep us playing, but it can be a huge obstacle to new-player retention.

To overcome this a new PvP player must be mentored. He needs someone there to talk him through setting up his overview, someone to practice flying against, someone to create fleet roles and fittings that take into account not only his current skills, but his future plans for his character. And few people are interested in filling this role. Beyond this, a corporation requires little more than a newb-friendly atmosphere and a team rather than individual focus. But what, exactly, is a newb-friendly attmosphere, and why is it so difficult to accomplish?

In such a corporation, winning and losing is not measured by a killboard or what ships anyone can fly, but by the enjoyment of the members and the outcome of the overall plan. In such a corporation, losing a ship is irrelevant, losing a fight is irrelevant, fun and participation are the measure of success. This is critical. The members of such a corporation must feel that their organization exists as a group of friends, of people, rather than a collection of characters. In such an environment a player is not measured and valued based upon his characters ever-improving skills or his killboard, but for his mind and committment as a person to the team.

In such an environment, losing a ship is irrelevant. Screwing up a tackle is irrelevant. The player and their enjoyment of the game are what determines success or failure. This is not new-age psychobabble or feel-good nonsense. The joke in Eve is that the best ship is friendship, but in the best corporations this is actually more true than not. An excellent example of this is Goonswarm -- there is perhaps no better "newb friendly" alliance in the game, provided you meet their S.A. prerequisites. And while they have an advantage in that they exist as an out-of-game entity, it is my belief that this same principle can apply to any corporation that adopts a similar philosophy.

A new player welcomed with careful instruction, who never need worry about money, who never need concern himself with his killboard, who has a job he has been trained to do as a part of a team, and who sees himself as an important part of that team -- valued as an person rather than a character with certain skills -- is a player that is highly likely to commit to the game.

In my opinion of course.