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Is there no CSM rep for high sec?

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#61 - 2012-10-03 21:35:19 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
D'Om K'vash wrote:
high sec players are new and in small corps so of course we arn't going to be as organized as a 5 year character living in couple thousand player alliance.

There's a vast number of old guard players who've been living in highsec mining and missioning and trading away for years and years.

The problem with highsec is that the players who live there are so thoroughly mollycoddled by CONCORD and the comforts of Empire that it encourages an insular and narrow playstyle which doesn't translate well to the requirements of CSM campaigning or the responsibilities of office. That's why we tend to find that the most effective CSMs come from 0.0, whereas highsec CSMs are mostly ineffective and anonymous grey suits, nakedly self-serving, and/or batshit insane.

If you want highsec CSMs, change highsec.


Oh, and your dear leader is the shining example of a someone who is NOT self-serving?
Oh, and let's not forget that little thing where he was booted in disgrace from the current CSM for displaying some sociopathic tendencies.

Gotta love goons. Facts and reality and zero bearing when you have a good story.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#62 - 2012-10-03 21:39:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
D'Om K'vash wrote:
high sec players are new and in small corps so of course we arn't going to be as organized as a 5 year character living in couple thousand player alliance.

There's a vast number of old guard players who've been living in highsec mining and missioning and trading away for years and years.

The problem with highsec is that the players who live there are so thoroughly mollycoddled by CONCORD and the comforts of Empire that it encourages an insular and narrow playstyle which doesn't translate well to the requirements of CSM campaigning or the responsibilities of office. That's why we tend to find that the most effective CSMs come from 0.0, whereas highsec CSMs are mostly ineffective and anonymous grey suits, nakedly self-serving, and/or batshit insane.

If you want highsec CSMs, change highsec.


Oh, and your dear leader is the shining example of a someone who is NOT self-serving?
Oh, and let's not forget that little thing where he was booted in disgrace from the current CSM for displaying some sociopathic tendencies.

Gotta love goons. Facts and reality and zero bearing when you have a good story.

Regarding the self-serving part: What was good for Mittens was good for every player of Eve.

Whether you like that or not; whether you believe that or not, it's true. Eve is better off for The Mittani having served as CSM Chair. Period.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-10-03 21:39:52 UTC
Sorry, some of the CSM publords like Trebor and Seleene tried this earlier to make sure they stay in power and got shut down real bad
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#64 - 2012-10-03 21:42:31 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Oh, and your dear leader is the shining example of a someone who is NOT self-serving?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything he argue that would classify, so I feel we should turn that question around: can you find some example of something he did that was?

Quote:
Facts and reality and zero bearing when you have a good story.
You mean like claiming that people are self-serving and offering nothing to back it up?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-10-03 21:42:44 UTC
Trebor is the highsec candidate. Because he sure as hell doesn't understand anything about nullsec and lowsec is just a joke.
Cpt Roghie
Chemical Invasion Co.
#66 - 2012-10-03 21:45:04 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
D'Om K'vash wrote:
Again, it's hard to organize when you have no assurances of the candidates allegiance.


We have no 'assurances' that any 0.0 candidate won't get in and immediately reveal themselves as a L4 running carebear who wants CCP to delete 0.0 and ban highsec aggression. We have to evaluate the candidates and make our choices accordingly. Why should you be treated any differently?

'Oh its so hard to organise' is a red herring and you know it. It's just as hard for everyone else, but they get off their backsides and do it anyway, whilst highseccers whine and complain for big mummy CCP to hold their hands and wipe their arses for them.


I highly agree with this.


OP: Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith. Why don't you eve mail any of the current CSM members regardless of their "homes" LoSec/NullSec/Wh/High sec, and tell them what point you would like to raise? Just because they dont represent High sec, doesn't mean that they arent willing to listen to you. Just write in a polite manner, and I'm sure someone will respond to you eventually. This is a community driven game, like it or not. It doesn't matter if Mittens is sitting in the CSM chair or whoever is currently sitting in it (Sorry for my ignorance) Reach out, contact them. Don't expect CCP/CSM to contact you for your opinion.


This could be fun.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2012-10-03 21:46:42 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
I'm going through list of csm members and all i see is null sec.. null sec.. null sec.. worm hole.. null sec.. i mean jesus christ the keys to the asylum have been handed to the inmates. what is it 20% of all players live in null and they are 80%of the eve community representation.. ******* awesome ccp. No wonder there is a 15minute aggression timer for a ship getting pointed. Dull sec goons put it there so they can make billions ganking freighters with their bump machariels and 2 day condors points to get aggression. What a joke.


Issler Dainze
Keldruum (sp?)

2 out of the "Iceland 7" CSMs are explicitly hi-sec.

I guess this level of research and insight explains why you lost your ship.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#68 - 2012-10-03 21:50:46 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
people say it's high sec peoples fault for not voting but that is an uneducated statement and naive, in that the alliance blocks have multiple accounts, that they afford by being some of the older players with most isk. they use these multiple accounts and isk they have in game to rig elections. There is a reason there is an alliance called "your vote doesn't count" I'm all for goons high sec ganking characters having a say in the discussion but my point is that there is no discussion right now. It's goons and their alts and allies yelling over the top of everyone else. "NO this is the way it has to be!"

And the one mechinism for players to be heard directly by ccp (CSM) is all null sec alliance members and one wh member.. which I'm sure does not represent the overall player base. I don't know the numbers but i highly doube 90% of people live in null sec.

I propose that ccp make it so that there are allotted positions for the various things in eve. Null, fw, high sec, pirating, ect ect.. and ccp should monitor who is linked to theses accounts so that goons cant just take one of their members other accounts and have it falsely represent a portion of the game they don't care about.

Also to say that null people have more invested in game is a bad argument. Why should my subscription be worth any less.. I have to actually pay for mine because i'm not in a null sec allinace with hundreds of trillions of iks so taht i can just buy plex with my account. New players and high sec care bears that enjoy that part of the game should receive a voice.



8/10 not bad, you got a bite from me


nice work

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
D'Om K'vash
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#69 - 2012-10-03 21:53:25 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
D'Om K'vash wrote:
Again, it's hard to organize when you have no assurances of the candidates allegiance.


We have no 'assurances' that any 0.0 candidate won't get in and immediately reveal themselves as a L4 running carebear who wants CCP to delete 0.0 and ban highsec aggression. We have to evaluate the candidates and make our choices accordingly. Why should you be treated any differently?

'Oh its so hard to organise' is a red herring and you know it. It's just as hard for everyone else, but they get off their backsides and do it anyway, whilst highseccers whine and complain for big mummy CCP to hold their hands and wipe their arses for them.



HAHA thats funny, yah i'm sure goons have a real problem with high sec spy infiltrators bringing down your organization. You are funny. It is not the same and you know it. Goons are teh ones who inflitrate every aspect of the game with alts and manipulate the game for their favor. Not high sec care bears.. we don't have the people or the funds like you do.

All i'm asking for is a person who represents high sec interests that i can go to and will at lease bring those concerns to csm.. which will be shot down by all the other members who are null sec but at least there is one person to represent. If high sec was able to get behind a candidate we would at least have one there are way more players in high sec then in null. The fact we are not able to even get one shows that it's just another system goons are able to manipulate with their numbers and wealth.

to answer whats not being represented..

High sec ganking concerns of the high sec members.
aggression timer mechanic that was put in for cap fleet warfare and didn't consider how it would effect high sec freighter pilots.
(If there is 15miute timer then freighters which are capitals then need to have capital type tanks).. or have shorter timer for high sec.
market manipulation through fw and through mineral manipulation that makes everything more expensive and creates financial barriers to newer players.
incursions which have been changed back and forth with no high sec voice.
missions which no one in null cares about has no high sec influence.

and many more .. also jsut to have representation is all i ask. To just say get organized in high sec is naive we have different problems then you do and to say "we have same problem in goons" no you dont thats like a rich person saying he has the same problems as a factory worker
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#70 - 2012-10-03 22:04:31 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Someone who griefs in high sec is hardly a representative of high sec.
That is the equivalent of suggesting some goon who spams Jita local all day and scams noobs is a high sec member.

Your stated purpose is to wipe out high sec.
I have lost count of the manifestos you have posted regarding your griefing of miners.
Nonetheless, I expect, you will get a ton of votes if you ran, based on every goon being TOLD to vote for you with their alts.

A few minor corrections:

1. I do not "grief" in highsec. Where's your evidence for this claim?
2. I never said I purposed to wipe out highsec. Show me where I said that? I merely said that all forms of highsec PvE should be nerfed into oblivion.

MinerBumping.com
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-10-03 22:08:19 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
D'Om K'vash wrote:
Again, it's hard to organize when you have no assurances of the candidates allegiance.


We have no 'assurances' that any 0.0 candidate won't get in and immediately reveal themselves as a L4 running carebear who wants CCP to delete 0.0 and ban highsec aggression. We have to evaluate the candidates and make our choices accordingly. Why should you be treated any differently?

'Oh its so hard to organise' is a red herring and you know it. It's just as hard for everyone else, but they get off their backsides and do it anyway, whilst highseccers whine and complain for big mummy CCP to hold their hands and wipe their arses for them.



HAHA thats funny, yah i'm sure goons have a real problem with high sec spy infiltrators bringing down your organization. You are funny. It is not the same and you know it. Goons are teh ones who inflitrate every aspect of the game with alts and manipulate the game for their favor. Not high sec care bears.. we don't have the people or the funds like you do.

All i'm asking for is a person who represents high sec interests that i can go to and will at lease bring those concerns to csm.. which will be shot down by all the other members who are null sec but at least there is one person to represent. If high sec was able to get behind a candidate we would at least have one there are way more players in high sec then in null. The fact we are not able to even get one shows that it's just another system goons are able to manipulate with their numbers and wealth.

to answer whats not being represented..

High sec ganking concerns of the high sec members.
aggression timer mechanic that was put in for cap fleet warfare and didn't consider how it would effect high sec freighter pilots.
(If there is 15miute timer then freighters which are capitals then need to have capital type tanks).. or have shorter timer for high sec.
market manipulation through fw and through mineral manipulation that makes everything more expensive and creates financial barriers to newer players.
incursions which have been changed back and forth with no high sec voice.
missions which no one in null cares about has no high sec influence.

and many more .. also jsut to have representation is all i ask. To just say get organized in high sec is naive we have different problems then you do and to say "we have same problem in goons" no you dont thats like a rich person saying he has the same problems as a factory worker


Yeah clearly what is needed in highsec is it to be even more effort free than it already is.
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#72 - 2012-10-03 22:08:29 UTC
If highsec really wants to vote someone to represent their interests, they would have done so.

Wormhole space managed to put a CSM in second place after Mittani, despite the fact that wormhole space is the least inhabited space in all of eve.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2012-10-03 22:08:48 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
All i'm asking for is a person who represents high sec interests that i can go to and will at lease bring those concerns to csm.
…and you have two. If you want more, go out there and organise a campaign for more. It's really as simple as that.

Quote:
High sec ganking concerns of the high sec members.
aggression timer mechanic that was put in for cap fleet warfare and didn't consider how it would effect high sec freighter pilots.
(If there is 15miute timer then freighters which are capitals then need to have capital type tanks).. or have shorter timer for high sec.
market manipulation through fw and through mineral manipulation that makes everything more expensive and creates financial barriers to newer players.
incursions which have been changed back and forth with no high sec voice.
missions which no one in null cares about has no high sec influence.
Uhm… yeah, no. Pretty much all of these have been up for CSM discussions with “highsec reps” present. None of them are really highsec-specific concerns anyway.

Quote:
To just say get organized in high sec is naive we have different problems then you do
No, it really isn't because no, you really don't (as shown by the fact that there have been plenty of them throughout the history of the CSM).
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-10-03 22:10:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and you have two. If you want more, go out there and organise a campaign for more. It's really as simple as that.


He doesn't want to EARN more he wants to be GIVEN more.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2012-10-03 22:30:19 UTC
CaptainFalcon07 wrote:
If highsec really wants to vote someone to represent their interests, they would have done so.

Wormhole space managed to put a CSM in second place after Mittani, despite the fact that wormhole space is the least inhabited space in all of eve.



Which only PROVES how biased democracy is against hi-sec!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#76 - 2012-10-03 22:30:49 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and you have two. If you want more, go out there and organise a campaign for more. It's really as simple as that.


He doesn't want to EARN more he wants to be GIVEN more.


There's a certain philosophic consistency there...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ginger Barbarella
#77 - 2012-10-03 23:17:07 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
I'm going through list of csm members and all i see is null sec.. null sec.. null sec.. worm hole.. null sec.. i mean jesus christ the keys to the asylum have been handed to the inmates. what is it 20% of all players live in null and they are 80%of the eve community representation.. ******* awesome ccp. No wonder there is a 15minute aggression timer for a ship getting pointed. Dull sec goons put it there so they can make billions ganking freighters with their bump machariels and 2 day condors points to get aggression. What a joke.


Of course there are none (really) representing high sec. Just look at the numbers required to put these guys in office versus the alliance sizes, and there's your answer. Want to be a rep for high sec? Build an Alliance of high sec interested parties, get them all to vote, and you're in.

Just remember to buy your votes, tho...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-10-03 23:33:40 UTC
Hisec is not motivated to vote because they have basically everything they want - safety, ridiculously low risk activities with ridiculously high reward, etc. etc.

Most of them don't view hisec as 'broken' the way you do because they either a) accept that a freighter hauling 10b of goods is going to get ganked or b) are hilariously unaware that ganks happen.

Considering the visibility of these ganks (they routinely top killboards, they're ~quite~ visible, etc etc) I don't think it's case B.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-10-03 23:47:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
Hisec is not motivated to vote because they have basically everything they want - safety, ridiculously low risk activities with ridiculously high reward, etc. etc.

Most of them don't view hisec as 'broken' the way you do because they either a) accept that a freighter hauling 10b of goods is going to get ganked or b) are hilariously unaware that ganks happen.

Considering the visibility of these ganks (they routinely top killboards, they're ~quite~ visible, etc etc) I don't think it's case B.


They would probably also fail to effectively choose one person to represent them. Thier votes would be amssively diluted between a large bunch of candidates imo.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-10-04 00:11:07 UTC
D'Om K'vash wrote:
what is it 20% of all players live in null and they are 80%of the eve community representation..


Even if that were true, it's also a reason for you to not have more CSM representatives (you already have 2 btw). HighSec really doesn't need them.
When there is something wrong with highsec you will immediately post countless threads in this very forum. Just look at freighter ganking. There are multiple threads about it active, including a 27 page threadnaught.
You already got CCP's attention, even with completely unnecessary concerns like this one.

We Nullsec inhabitants don't have that. When did you last see a 20+ page thread about broken Pos mechanics? Where are the countless whine threads about broken risk/reward balance in Null?

You don't need the CSM to get your voices heard.
The smaller parts of this game, like Low- and Nullsec are getting neglected and the disproportionatly large CSM group representing those parts is the only way to get CCP to listen to our concerns.