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Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
Pipa Porto
#221 - 2012-10-03 10:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
The first victim can't pay concord to know when, where and by who is going to be gank, so why should the ganker (being THE CRIMINAL) get help from the police to ascape the consequence of his crime?


Suicide Gank victims can just hit D-Scan to get that information instead.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#222 - 2012-10-03 10:47:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Except no. What does a killright hunter fly? Anything. What's their name? Anything. There's nothing to d-scan for. There's nobody to look for in local. There's nothing to stay alert for. The killright hunter has a game mechanically enforced element of surprise that the target cannot overcome.

Except yes. Watch out for HACs, HICs, fast ships, ships normally flown by PVPers. You yourself should fly in fast ships. Being this is a PVP game be ready to PVP at a moment's notice. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Learn who the bounty hunters are and add them to your contacts list. Fly with friends. The sooner you realize hi sec isn't safe the better. Also, stay aligned. Stay away from congested systems.

Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button.


There's the rub. In HS, unconsensual, surprise PvP costs the attacker their ship.


It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.

In hi-sec you have to pay in order to aggress, but you don't necessarily have to pay with your ship.

Suicide gankers do pay with their ship.

War Targets pay with their wardec fees.

Killright owners pay with the ship they lost that granted them the killright.

Bounty hunters will pay for the killright they purchase from the original killright owner.

hth

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Pipa Porto
#223 - 2012-10-03 12:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Malcanis wrote:
It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.


And the thing people have been proposing is that people whose killrights get purchased don't get informed.

You might try reading the bit that I've posted some 5 times in this thread. I'll be excited about killrights if the target gets notified and gets equivalent combat rights against the purchaser (like a one-man-wardec). Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Spirocles
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2012-10-03 13:09:35 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.


And the thing people have been proposing is that people whose killrights get purchased don't get informed.

You might try reading the bit that I've posted some 5 times in this thread. I'll be excited about killrights if the target gets notified and gets equivalent combat rights against the purchaser (like a one-man-wardec). Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.


I agree Pipa, there should be SOME mechanic in place for a criminal (who know's he/she is a criminal btw) to find out who owns the killrights to pewpew him/her wherever they want. I do think everyone is in agreement that the transferring of killrights can be a good thing. I merely suggest CCP implement it in such a way as to cost money to find out, and it's something that has to be initiated by the target. Not something automatically popping up on their screen saying "Pilot X bought killrights from Pilot Y".
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#225 - 2012-10-03 13:30:59 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
In Highsec, you're talking about suicide ganking


It's safe to say this is a major assumption at this point. Twisted


The word "safe" is a four-letter word in EVE.
Even in English. Lol

"safe" is not a word within our pixellated universe.
Wilhelm Riley
Doomheim
#226 - 2012-10-03 13:31:08 UTC
Spirocles wrote:


I agree Pipa, there should be SOME mechanic in place for a criminal (who know's he/she is a criminal btw) to find out who owns the killrights to pewpew him/her wherever they want. I do think everyone is in agreement that the transferring of killrights can be a good thing. I merely suggest CCP implement it in such a way as to cost money to find out, and it's something that has to be initiated by the target. Not something automatically popping up on their screen saying "Pilot X bought killrights from Pilot Y".


Maybe the information could come from an agent that you need to pay, like how locator agents work?
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#227 - 2012-10-03 13:39:11 UTC
Wilhelm Riley wrote:
Spirocles wrote:


I agree Pipa, there should be SOME mechanic in place for a criminal (who know's he/she is a criminal btw) to find out who owns the killrights to pewpew him/her wherever they want. I do think everyone is in agreement that the transferring of killrights can be a good thing. I merely suggest CCP implement it in such a way as to cost money to find out, and it's something that has to be initiated by the target. Not something automatically popping up on their screen saying "Pilot X bought killrights from Pilot Y".


Maybe the information could come from an agent that you need to pay, like how locator agents work?


Maybe just a button on the "can be killed by" tab that will cost a certain amount of isk, and will update with any people who can kill you who you don't know about.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#228 - 2012-10-03 13:40:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.


And the thing people have been proposing is that people whose killrights get purchased don't get informed.

You might try reading the bit that I've posted some 5 times in this thread. I'll be excited about killrights if the target gets notified and gets equivalent combat rights against the purchaser (like a one-man-wardec).


You've posted it 5 times and IMO it's still a false equivalence. The bounty target still has more information and a reduced threat than the prospective gank victim who sold his killright, and no one (certainly not you) is advocating giving them any more. I fail to see why the target of revenge should be allowed more information than the target of the original crime, the more so since they voluntarily placed themself in the situation to begin with.

I think at this stage we'll just have to agree to disagree, since repeating the same debate points at each other must be making some tedious reading by now.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.


I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that gankers and pirates can't or don't team up on their victims? If it's legitimate for 15 guys in artynados to blap a freighter (and I believe it is, and I'm pretty sure you do too) then why isn't it OK for several different bounty hunters to each purchase a killright on the same guy and hunt him down together?

In any case, this can only happen if a perp has multiple killrights open against him and his "crimes" are so egregious and the bounty on him so high that it becomes worthwhile to do so. In which case, yeah... so?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Pipa Porto
#229 - 2012-10-03 14:09:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You've posted it 5 times and IMO it's still a false equivalence. The bounty target still has more information and a reduced threat than the prospective gank victim who sold his killright, and no one (certainly not you) is advocating giving them any more. I fail to see why the target of revenge should be allowed more information than the target of the original crime, the more so since they voluntarily placed themself in the situation to begin with.


In what way does the blind killright target have more information on who's gunning for them than the gank victim? The gank victim can d-scan to discover an inbound gank fleet. A killright target can d-scan for... what? Any Ship? That's useful. A gank victim can be wary of pilots with negative sec statuses (not foolproof, but still effective). A killright target can watch out for... whom? Any Character? That's useful.

Everyone's volunteered to be the potential target of a surprise attack any time they undock in HS. The understanding, however, is that that surprise will cost the attacker their ship.

Why should killright buyers get a risk free, cost free, consequence free gank?

Quote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.


I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that gankers and pirates can't or don't team up on their victims? If it's legitimate for 15 guys in artynados to blap a freighter (and I believe it is, and I'm pretty sure you do too) then why isn't it OK for several different bounty hunters to each purchase a killright on the same guy and hunt him down together?

In any case, this can only happen if a perp has multiple killrights open against him and his "crimes" are so egregious and the bounty on him so high that it becomes worthwhile to do so. In which case, yeah... so?


Sounds like you really didn't read.

I'm saying that if purchased killrights worked both ways (like 1 on 1 wardecs[no defense allies, ofc]), 5 guys could buy killrights against one and work together to kill him, while the target can't get meaningful help from his allies. That's the advantage killright purchasers would have over their targets. I'm just saying why disallow the hunted from hunting the hunter?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
#230 - 2012-10-03 14:39:11 UTC
I've been waiting nine years for some valid bounty hunting mechanic, it must really be 2012 the end of the world if it's going to be implemented, and we're going to have tools to effectively uphold common decency in New Eden. Therefore, LOL at all this abloobloo.


Just pretend Empire Space is tired of subsidizing costly CONCORD over-the-top interventions, and wants to put policing space lanes into the hands of pod pilots. It's a game, play pretend!

Also, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. At the moment you undock, be prepared to lose your ship. Check local, stay aligned, hit d-scan frequently and set it on a short radius so you can warp out when you see a gang inbound. EvE is harsh and cruel, maybe it's not the game for you? But anyway, it's only a game, so don't get mad!

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2012-10-03 14:41:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously, when it gets Matrix to say something like that, you know that CCP are doing the right thing with this new bounty system. Pirate

I'd love to try out the bounty hunter profession. I can say it would definitely motiviate me to PVP :P.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#232 - 2012-10-03 14:42:04 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You've posted it 5 times and IMO it's still a false equivalence. The bounty target still has more information and a reduced threat than the prospective gank victim who sold his killright, and no one (certainly not you) is advocating giving them any more. I fail to see why the target of revenge should be allowed more information than the target of the original crime, the more so since they voluntarily placed themself in the situation to begin with.


In what way does the blind killright target have more information on who's gunning for them than the gank victim? The gank victim can d-scan to discover an inbound gank fleet. A killright target can d-scan for... what? Any Ship? That's useful. A gank victim can be wary of pilots with negative sec statuses (not foolproof, but still effective). A killright target can watch out for... whom? Any Character? That's useful.

Everyone's volunteered to be the potential target of a surprise attack any time they undock in HS. The understanding, however, is that that surprise will cost the attacker their ship.

Why should killright buyers get a risk free, cost free, consequence free gank?

Quote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.


I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that gankers and pirates can't or don't team up on their victims? If it's legitimate for 15 guys in artynados to blap a freighter (and I believe it is, and I'm pretty sure you do too) then why isn't it OK for several different bounty hunters to each purchase a killright on the same guy and hunt him down together?

In any case, this can only happen if a perp has multiple killrights open against him and his "crimes" are so egregious and the bounty on him so high that it becomes worthwhile to do so. In which case, yeah... so?


Sounds like you really didn't read.

I'm saying that if purchased killrights worked both ways (like 1 on 1 wardecs[no defense allies, ofc]), 5 guys could buy killrights against one and work together to kill him, while the target can't get meaningful help from his allies. That's the advantage killright purchasers would have over their targets. I'm just saying why disallow the hunted from hunting the hunter?


At this stage the only advice I can give is that if you're such a bad PvPer that hunting you is "risk free", then you should perhaps try another profession.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2012-10-03 14:46:15 UTC
Could Pipa Porto now shut the hell up? We get it. You've posted it nearly a hundred times. New Eden is a big scary place for the professional highsec ganker when it is the ganker who may be ganked.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2012-10-03 14:50:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.


And the thing people have been proposing is that people whose killrights get purchased don't get informed.

You might try reading the bit that I've posted some 5 times in this thread. I'll be excited about killrights if the target gets notified and gets equivalent combat rights against the purchaser (like a one-man-wardec). Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.

Ok then. Let's make it so that before a suicide gank happens the ganker shall register his target's name and said target is automatically informed he is being hunted specifically by this ganker individual Roll. Now both parties know exactly who's hunting them. What? Don't like it?

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Pipa Porto
#235 - 2012-10-03 14:53:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
At this stage the only advice I can give is that if you're such a bad PvPer that hunting you is "risk free", then you should perhaps try another profession.


Hunting someone who cannot know you're coming for them, who cannot shoot first, and whose friends cannot effectively shoot at all, when you are not constrained by a guaranteed ship loss, is risk free, no matter who your target is or how skilled they are. I mean seriously, if you can't win and profit with those conditions against anyone, you're pretty pathetic.

Feel free to hunt me in LS. I live out around Okagaiken.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#236 - 2012-10-03 14:55:18 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Ok then. Let's make it so that before a suicide gank happens the ganker shall register his target's name and said target is automatically informed he is being hunted specifically by this ganker individual Roll. Now both parties know exactly who's hunting them. What? Don't like it?


You already can tell when someone's coming for you in a suicide gank. A half dozen destroyers showing up on d-scan isn't particularly subtle. What can a killright target d-scan for?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#237 - 2012-10-03 14:57:27 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Could Pipa Porto now shut the hell up? We get it. You've posted it nearly a hundred times. New Eden is a big scary place for the professional highsec ganker when it is the ganker who may be ganked.


Where have I ever asked for Suicide Ganking to be eliminated?

In HS, the element of surprise costs you your ship or some effort. That's how it works. You're asking for it for free and with no effort invested.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2012-10-03 14:58:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
.... and with no effort invested.
It is that easy to kill you?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2012-10-03 14:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Pipa Porto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Could Pipa Porto now shut the hell up? We get it. You've posted it nearly a hundred times. New Eden is a big scary place for the professional highsec ganker when it is the ganker who may be ganked.
Where have I ever asked for Suicide Ganking to be eliminated?
I never said you did. But apparently you suck so bad, that anyone can get the drop on you.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2012-10-03 15:00:02 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
At this stage the only advice I can give is that if you're such a bad PvPer that hunting you is "risk free", then you should perhaps try another profession.


Hunting someone who cannot know you're coming for them, who cannot shoot first, and whose friends cannot effectively shoot at all, when you are not constrained by a guaranteed ship loss, is risk free, no matter who your target is or how skilled they are. I mean seriously, if you can't win and profit with those conditions against anyone, you're pretty pathetic.

Do you realize that everything just just posted here applies the same to a miner as it does to the ganker?

You want the ganker/killrights victim to have a sort-of alarm system that allows them to know exactly who is after them when the ganker's victims themselves have no such thing.

Pipa, you are the posterchild of hi sec PVPers looking for risk-free PVP.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.