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Will this Rattlesnake surveive plexes with em-citadel-torpedos?

Author
Angelina Joliee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-10-02 13:43:10 UTC
Hi all,

i have this shiny rattlesnake i do blood raider plexes with. Why rattlesnake you ask? Because it has huge passive-shield-recharge. This way i dont need to take a logistic with me and can instead take another dps with me.

The fitting:
[Rattlesnake, Passive]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Improved Cloaking Device II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

The stats:
- 370 hp/s shield-recharge, 3000 hp/s counting resistances in.
- 200k effective hitpoints (em)
- 600 dps

The energy-transfer is only for cap-chain after all neuts are destroyed.

I've tested this in some blood plexes and it did very nice. Shield never got below 90%.

But i know there are some plexes with incoming em-citadel-torps which deal about 180k em-damage every 30 seconds to a capital.
Now my question: How much damage will this citadel-torpedo do to my rattlesnake? Will it surveive or wil it pop after second hit?

Thank you for your answers - but i am not interested in recommandations like "Better take a loki, munnin or abbadon as tank".

Angie
Krakhen
Praetors of Orpheus
#2 - 2012-10-02 14:35:26 UTC
I'm not a very high SP character soI would love it if people also added the relevant skill levels to their build. Unless it's not proper, I have no idea if this is taboo or something but it rarely gets mentionned. This way we could relate not only with the equipment but also with the pilots skill levels.

Btw I'm also aiming for a Rattlesnake, hence my interest in this thread Smile
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-10-02 15:19:40 UTC
180k damage per 30 seconds = 6k dps per second, so comparing that with your raw tank, you might not hold. However, you need to take into consideration that a) your resists are really well stacked against that, and b) you're much smaller than a carrier.

You should plug the incoming damage into EFT/Pyfa at a 60/40 EM/thermal split and see what effective tank you get against that. It should be significantly higher than your uniform damage tank, and a better approximation to compare to the figure above.

Lastly, even when you try it, try to have some friends on hand to bail you out with damage or rep support. It would suck to lose a Rattlesnake to rats.

Angelina Joliee wrote:

Thank you for your answers - but i am not interested in recommandations like "Better take a loki, munnin or abbadon as tank".

You're probably gonna get some of that anyway, unfortunately.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#4 - 2012-10-02 15:30:31 UTC
Krakhen wrote:
I'm not a very high SP character soI would love it if people also added the relevant skill levels to their build. Unless it's not proper, I have no idea if this is taboo or something but it rarely gets mentionned. This way we could relate not only with the equipment but also with the pilots skill levels.

Btw I'm also aiming for a Rattlesnake, hence my interest in this thread Smile

Typically when talking about raw fits, people look at the "All Level V" stats in their fitting tool. So far as the minimum skills "required", you just need to be able to sit in the ship and fit the mods. That said, to fly it competently, most of those skills should be level 4-5, plus a large variety of auxiliary skills (mostly in the Engineering, Electronics, and Mechanic categories, plus whichever skills pertain to your weapons/drones) should also be as high as possible.

I'm saying this as a blanket statement for the Rattlesnake, as it is a faction battleship worth several hundreds of millions of ISK just for the hull, so it would be a shame to fly it poorly. Personally, I wouldn't touch it without having:


  • Caldari Battleship V
  • Gallente Battleship V
  • Drones V, Drone Interfacing V, Scout Drones V, 2+ drone specializations V, Heavy Drone Operation V, Sentry Drone Operation V, all drone support skills IV or V
  • Shield Operation V, Shield Management V, Tactical Shield Manipulation IV, shield compensation skills III-IV+, Shield Upgrades V
  • Torpedos V, Torpedo Specialization IV-V, all missile support skills IV-V
  • All fitting skills V (including Weapon Upgrades, Advanced Weapon Upgrades, Engineering, Electronics, and a bunch of others)
  • Shield Rigging III-IV+


Might seem intense, but faction battleships are some of the tougher things to train for. Looking at the things I put forward, if you train straight for it, it may be 1-1.5 years at the least (and doesn't help you very much with other ships, since there are very few drone-focused heavily shield tanked ships).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#5 - 2012-10-02 20:56:31 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
180k damage per 30 seconds = 6k dps per second, so comparing that with your raw tank, you might not hold..


Even worse, shield recharge rate changes with shield level (it reaches a maximum at about 33% shield capacity and drops off in both directions).

"Bursty" damage can take a shield tank below the magic 33% more easily than steady incoming dps. If your shield is at 40% and you get hit by something that takes it down to 20% in one hit, you've just lost much of your natural recharge rate.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#6 - 2012-10-03 01:24:03 UTC
You might try fitting an afterburner, vs citadel torps.

thhief ghabmoef

Kejii Maeda
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-10-03 01:54:10 UTC
My experience with those EM Citadel Torps is they hurt a lot. A lot more than you would expect. You have your sig radius much higher because of the extenders and rigs, and that's part of why it hurts more than you expect. If you are going to tank against other rats AND the torpedo then I would estimate that your tank would break between the 4th and 8th torpedo. My experience with this situation is that there is a whole bunch of DPS from rats in addition to the torp. An afterburner would help a bit. I would recommend at the very least fit a shield boosting setup and at the most bring a designated remote repper.

If you there is no other damage coming in besides the torpedo then you should be alright.

In either case, always stay aligned so that if you fall below 40-50% you can warp off unless you are sure that you are going to be fine. Leave the drones behind if you have to. They are cheaper to replace than the Rattlesnake.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2012-10-03 08:41:55 UTC
The best way to tank that torp is to get out of range ASAP. IIRC it only reaches out to just under 60Km.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#9 - 2012-10-03 09:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Angelina Joliee wrote:



I've never run 10/10 PLEXes, but from what I've heard its 200k damage these citadel torpedoes do, that cant be mitigated by sig. Other say 180k only. So if 1rst is true, you may end in structure, or die maybe with some heavy aggro from rats when the torpedo hits you.

Also, as you dont have sustained tank vs. the outpost, maybe rig extenders instead? use logis? You dont have 200k in shield EHP alone, so if the torp hits 4 180-200 you'll end in armor/structure (or zero shields) with no passive regen and die to rats, even before 2nd torp hits you!
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#10 - 2012-10-04 04:07:47 UTC
Make sure to use some good shield hardwirings. Blink
Angelina Joliee
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-10-04 12:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelina Joliee
Yeah. I share all your concerns. Thats why i made my question public.
Seems i hoped for somebody saying: "Those torps dont do much damage if you have 10m/s speed or more." or "Those torps are easy manageable with a smart-bomb." or something like that.

Looks like i need to give up my idea of doing those plexes without a logistic and go buy a muninn/domi for tank/rep and call a corp-friend to do damage.
But i am a bit disappointed. I really hoped for a solution without remote-rep- especially as a solution for the upcoming npc-ai-changes.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-10-04 16:55:24 UTC
Angelina Joliee wrote:
especially as a solution for the upcoming npc-ai-changes.

Then the Rattler wouldn't be an optimal solution anyway, because its drones will get shot after the AI changes.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Angelina Joliee
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-10-04 22:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelina Joliee
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Then the Rattler wouldn't be an optimal solution anyway, because its drones will get shot after the AI changes.


That will be manageable. The drones won't get one-shooted and not all npc's will engage my drones. Depends on size of the npc and the size of my drones.

What i fear i will not always manage is the following situation after npc-ai-change:
- I tank with my Abaddon, Loki, Muninn, ... . Fitted with passive armor (because of the neuts).
- I remote rep with a domi or logistic.
- A corp mate helps with damage.
- Some npc's engage the domi/logistic => domi/logistic needs to warp out.
- My tank dies because my domi/logi does not arrive back in time to rep my scrambled and weapon-disrupted tank.

I dont say, there are no solutions. But it will not be as easy as it is now it seems - where you can simply cloak your logistic when a new wave of npc's arrive.