Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Perhaps add a 5th Turret to the Rupture and 120ish Grid. Then change the Dmg Bonus to a 7.5% Tracking Bonus like the Rifter or Stabber Fleet Issue.

Make it into a good Shield Artillery Ship / Armor Duel Prop Ship / High Tracking Mid Dmg Rush Ship. Double DPS Bonuses seem like a really boring way to go here.

Its already way to good at killing frigs tbh <.<

What they need to do is nerf short range weapon range so that short range weapons become short range again...

Because Tracking only helps for killing Frigates.

Tracking also helps with Artillery.


The weapon is not being nerfed. If it can not operate with 5 Turrets and a DPS Bonus like the other Cruisers then the weapon is the problem. As for why should short range weapons be short I am going to give you a huuuge hint here. They are short range weapons.

If you want long range weapons fit long range weapons and if those long range weapons suck then CCP should look into that instead of white washing over it like with the Moa.

Double DPS Bonuses are boring, give it a real second bonus and role.

This kind of sentiment precisely. I see absolutely no problems with both Caldari combat-oriented cruisers having a 5/5/4 slot layout; their stats and bonuses are different enough to differentiate them, not to mention the fact that they use totally different weapon systems. The Moa isn't very fast either, so I am really against removing a low slot to make a mid and then leaving the utility high; there's no way to fit anything in that slot unless you're using the smallest guns. Even then, how much would a neutralizer or NOS help you? Really only if you're active tanking a Moa in a small gang or something, but even then, it'd make more sense to switch the utility high for medium power slot #5 and then be able to choose between either fitting on a web or a capacitor booster depending on the situation. This also isn't even touching on the fact that as the Moa is the slowest combat cruiser by a fair margin, it'll need a web to keep enemies from just leaving scram range. To make it the brawler everyone wants it to be, nutty ASB active tank or otherwise, you need that web, and sacrificing a good bit of defense simply to prevent an enemy from dodging half your volleys makes no sense to me. (And then there's also the fact that all the other combat cruisers can easily slap on a webifier, even the only other arguable shield tanker, the Rupture... Who arguably doesn't even NEED a webifier... The Moa can't. And needs it the most.)

As it stands now, the Caracal will be more suited to both long and close range fighting simply because if a Caracal pilot wanted to fit a heavier tank, MWD, point and web for close range, they could, whereas the Moa, whose role is supposed to have them be more survivable than attack cruisers, will have to sacrifice tank for combat effectiveness, especially in short range fights. This seems slightly backwards to me, though I also don't necessarily advocate the loss of a midslot on the Caracal for a utility high either.

Also, I'm very against the suggestions for the loss of the Moa's drone bay. Those three drones aren't alot, but they, as well as a fifth med for a web, will help the Moa be able to fend off irritating frigates and/or destroyers, for sure. It's one of the reasons everyone cites the Maller as being awful. Don't make the Moa the Caldari Maller in more than one way.

That is entire a problem with Artillery Balance that should be solved before this expansion comes out and we are forced to deal with a bunch of Cruisers optimized with bonuses solely based around short range weapons.

Even if tracking does make it easy to kill Frigates it won't matter because pretty much every cruiser can do that now anyway. Also it will help with Hail giving it a good close range Dmg.

I don't want to see it become Stabber Mk II and instead be optimized for other things.

if the minmatar and caldari ships have a drone bay, shouldn't the maller as well? Other than that, changes look good all-round.

Increasing the speed as drastically as you are will make these ships much more aggressive, which is pretty scary considering the increased damage potential of the Maller and Moa, as well as EWAR/tackle potential of the Rupture and Vexor.

Unlike the Punisher, I think the maller will shine for small gang and solo with this slot layout and bonus combination. It is still a very vulnerable platform due to lack of drones or utility highs/mids to deal with frigates, however durability and now modest damage output should make it competitive with similar size peers. Given the lack of cap use bonus, I'd have to try the ship in person to feel out how well the cap holds up in PvP.

The Moa will likely feel much like how the Merlin feels with T1 Frigates now with the added damage bonus. It looks incredibly solid.

The Vexor looks very versatile with four mids and five lows, able to armor or shield tank. It'll probably be a favorite for people in small gangs or soloing due to its ability to put on many hats and excel in many roles. Lack of a utility high makes it more vulnerable to cap warfare and frigates, which is cool.

I'm going to miss the second utility high on the Rupture, however the fact it still retains one takes the sting out of the loss. The extra midslot is a tip of the hat to the folk that love the shield gank fit Rupture today, and the huge increase in speed should allow it to play the skirmishing game more effectively. A problem that I see with the Rupture after these changes, and which is repeated with the Rifter is that Null currently places projectile ships on the back foot: Null loaded blasters have better tracking and has better damage projection in all cases to similar tier projectiles. Even though the Rupture might have a slight advantage in maintaining range or choosing the fight it wants from maneuverability, the Vexor and the Moa will easily overwhelm a Rupture, and will likely lead to the Rupture falling from competitive standing.

I feel this is more an issue with projectiles than it is with the ships. I'll be hitting duality in the near future to try out fittings, however I'm guessing that the change in fitting requirements for projectiles will not solve this inequality issue.

Well Ogres can be outrun (even by tackled opponents and stations apparently). And while the Vexor is one of the fastest cruisers with these changes, it apparently will not be able to apply it's damage. Oh, and drones suck cuz they can get shot and apparently you will be too stupid to scoop them while fighting in blaster range. So... it's not a beast. Everything is just fine. It's all perfectly balanced. I know, because a posting alts on EvE-O forums told me so.... /sarcasm

(You are damn right it'll be a beast. A freakin gold-plated r@pemachine.)

The Maller should get an optimal range bonus instead of a damage bonus to lasers. If you're slow you may as well be able to project damage fairly far. Might help alot in fleets. Which is where this ship excels am I right? Esp with tech 1 logistics cruisers = / People seems to ignore that and the fact the Maller can hit @ 26 - 32k with 2 tracking computers...

Also, the heavy drone issue is overblown and I'm not going to get into it because it's silly.

You can fit a set of Medium Electron II's with a Meta 4 1600mm Plate and MWD leaving 12 Grid left for DCU / EANM's, DMG Mods and Tackle. You however need advanced weapons upgrade V.

With AWU IV you can ditch a Trimark for a ACR, put a T2 1600mm Plate and Electron II's and keep about 95% the tank.

Small Neutron Fits are pretty much dead unless you go MWD, 1600mm II, 800mm II 2 EANM II's, DCU and no Dmg Mods in a heavy tank fit.