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Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2012-10-02 17:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide killrights victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Fixed. Carry on.

By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Get friends to protect you. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Fight. Yadda yadda yadda.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Norman Seversky
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2012-10-02 17:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Norman Seversky
Why my topic, that i posted a week ago with similar solve do not have hundreds replies? :D

Главное, что отличает человека от животного - способность поставить себя на место другого человека.

Shandir
Indigo Archive
#183 - 2012-10-02 17:12:01 UTC
Norman Seversky wrote:
Why my topic, that i posted a week ago with similar solve do not have hundreds replies? :D


1) This is speculation about something CCP is actually doing, not something being suggested.
2) Your post had terrible grammar, solved a different and much less important problem, and wasn't even a particularly good solution.
Pipa Porto
#184 - 2012-10-02 17:19:41 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Fixed. Carry on.

By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Yadda yadda yadda.


Except no. What does a killright hunter fly? Anything. What's their name? Anything. There's nothing to d-scan for. There's nobody to look for in local. There's nothing to stay alert for. The killright hunter has a game mechanically enforced element of surprise that the target cannot overcome.

A Gank victim simply needs to set up a short range d-scan and look out for a half dozen destroyers or a couple tier 3s popping up on it.

Again (for the fourth time), if the target of the transferred killright gets to know the name of the purchaser and gets to hunt him as well, I'm all for it.


Oh, and don't screw with other people's words.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Norman Seversky
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2012-10-02 17:20:02 UTC
Shandir wrote:

...
2) Your post had terrible grammar, solved a different and much less important problem, and wasn't even a particularly good solution.

Less important problem? What problem solved this solution, if not exploit with jump-clone? This is the only reason, why developers made changes to bounty system, as i see..

Главное, что отличает человека от животного - способность поставить себя на место другого человека.

Arduemont
The State of War.
#186 - 2012-10-02 17:25:58 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.


I never said they couldn't. Same can be said of someone who is the subject of kill rights.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Except that the targets of transferred killrights have nothing to look for on the scan (as their hunters are not limited to certain hulls due to needing to be cost conscious), and their guards can't do anything nearly as effective as gank victims' guards could (no ECM, no shooting the gankers).


Nothing to look for? Correction, more to look for. ECM and shooting gankers doesn't work anyway, so the have that in common with suicide gank victims.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why should the purchaser of a killright get the first shot and the element of surprise, both mechanically enforced, without any consequence?


Because the other person got probably got the element of surprise last time. Without consequence? You seem to be missing the point. Getting attacked by the person with kill rights on them IS the consequence. They don't have to the target of someone with kill rights on them, its a personal choice. If you can't take the heat stay out of the fire.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#187 - 2012-10-02 17:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Pipa Porto wrote:
Except no. What does a killright hunter fly? Anything. What's their name? Anything. There's nothing to d-scan for. There's nobody to look for in local. There's nothing to stay alert for. The killright hunter has a game mechanically enforced element of surprise that the target cannot overcome.

Except yes. Watch out for HACs, HICs, fast ships, ships normally flown by PVPers. You yourself should fly in fast ships. Being this is a PVP game be ready to PVP at a moment's notice. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Learn who the bounty hunters are and add them to your contacts list. Fly with friends. The sooner you realize hi sec isn't safe the better. Also, stay aligned. Stay away from congested systems.

Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button.

Quote:
A Gank victim simply needs to set up a short range d-scan and look out for a half dozen destroyers or a couple tier 3s popping up on it.

Same for the killrights victim. Be on the lookout for well-known and established bounty hunters. And remember that you are not meant to be 100% safe, even in hi sec.

Most importantly, remember that you choose to generate a killright. You choose to undock. You choose to fly to congested systems where you may be ambushed. You choose what ships to fly. Don't like the heat, then stay out of the kitchen... Or docked. And stop generating killrights if you don't like the consequences.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2012-10-02 17:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Be on the lookout for well-known and established bounty hunters.
This crushes Pipa's weak arguments. End of discussion.

Bounty hunting will become a profession. Over time, there will be well-known bounty hunters. Get to know them. If gank victims are to know who the gankers are (this is part of Pipa's argument, on why gank victims have a superior advantage to the hunted ganker), then there's an onus on the ganker to get to know who the bounty hunters are.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2012-10-02 17:51:24 UTC
This is how I view it:

If I go to high sec & gank a miner/freighter just for the fun of it, then that miner/freighter can sell the kill right on me to a bounty hunter.

I am okay at NOT knowing the bounty hunter that can come after me & has rights to kill me.

I believe that if I do something that is illegal, then I assume the responsibility for it.

If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

And this would probably slow down the ganking, which in turn will make high sec safer for the carebears.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Hrothgar Nilsson
#190 - 2012-10-02 18:05:35 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

There is nothing to indicate kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system.

All talk on kill rights + bounty revamp are pretty pointless.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Shadow Cartel
#191 - 2012-10-02 18:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

There is nothing to indicate kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system.

All talk on kill rights + bounty revamp are pretty pointless.


Bounty hunting won't change much about the game if it DOESNT have anything to do with kill rights, to be fair. Otherwise, if you go into lowsec, the pirates will try to kill you anyways. They don't need to be paid to do that. And in highsec, players would likely be restricted by the same thing they are today - The almighty CONCORDOKKEN. Therefore, the bounty would have to be pretty substantial in order to justify suiciding their ship to claim it. Seeing as how many have pointed out that incremental bounty payouts would need to be less than the value of the ship destroyed in order to avoid exploitation, this means you would only see bounties claimed if you can suicide with a weaker ship to kill a larger ship, and even than you might only break even after the formula crunches it all out.

NOW - if you can sell a killright from someone who ganked you to another player, and THEY can claim that killright by firing upon the criminal offender without CONCORD interference - this opens up a whole bunch of PvP opportunities in highsec.

But besides all the logic that explains why these two systems should go hand-in-hand, there's always the matter of all the players that talked to the devs at the recent press events and specifically reported the developers talking about sellable killrights being a component of the planned overhaul.

So yeah, I don't think threads like this are pointless at all. CCP may not have posted details yet to the public in an official thread or dev blog, but that doesn't mean the players shouldn't be sharing ideas and brainstorming - conversations like the ones that have taken place the last few pages very closely mirror the conversations we've had internally with CCP and so I'm very much interested in your perspectives and feedback.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#192 - 2012-10-02 18:23:10 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide killrights victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Fixed. Carry on.

By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Get friends to protect you. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Fight. Yadda yadda yadda.



It feels weird to say this, but you're right.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#193 - 2012-10-02 18:26:43 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
This is how I view it:

If I go to high sec & gank a miner/freighter just for the fun of it, then that miner/freighter can sell the kill right on me to a bounty hunter.

I am okay at NOT knowing the bounty hunter that can come after me & has rights to kill me.

I believe that if I do something that is illegal, then I assume the responsibility for it.

If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

And this would probably slow down the ganking, which in turn will make high sec safer for the carebears.


If anyone's thinking that bounty hunting will stop ganking, then they're deluding themselves. Low SP destroyer alts are pretty much unaffected, for instance.

The players who will be affected are high-SP professional gankers, who will become the target of high-SP professional bounty hunters. Apparently some people think this is abloobloobloo unfair.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Hrothgar Nilsson
#194 - 2012-10-02 18:41:06 UTC
So what you're saying, Hans, is that this summary is completely incorrect:

Quote:
So, CCP dumped the whole thing and started over. Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player. Players can also put bounties on corporations (EVE Online's version of guilds) and alliances (groups of corporations). There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. CCP feels that this allows the player community to make its own decisions about what is and isn't acceptable behavior in EVE's dark galaxy. Says Lander, "EVE is such a complex social game that we can't dictate who's bad."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#195 - 2012-10-02 18:43:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
This is how I view it:

If I go to high sec & gank a miner/freighter just for the fun of it, then that miner/freighter can sell the kill right on me to a bounty hunter.

I am okay at NOT knowing the bounty hunter that can come after me & has rights to kill me.

I believe that if I do something that is illegal, then I assume the responsibility for it.

If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.

And this would probably slow down the ganking, which in turn will make high sec safer for the carebears.


If anyone's thinking that bounty hunting will stop ganking, then they're deluding themselves. Low SP destroyer alts are pretty much unaffected, for instance.

The players who will be affected are high-SP professional gankers, who will become the target of high-SP professional bounty hunters. Apparently some people think this is abloobloobloo unfair.



I didn't say stop ganking, I said slow down ganking.

If sellable kill rights do happen & you do not know who has them, then I bet the high SP alts will slow down on the ganking.

Then people will use low SP alts and..

Those high SP Bounty Hunters would love eating up those low SP alt destroyers one after the other.



R.I.P. Vile Rat

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2012-10-02 18:43:53 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
So what you're saying, Hans, is that this summary is completely incorrect:

Quote:
So, CCP dumped the whole thing and started over. Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player. Players can also put bounties on corporations (EVE Online's version of guilds) and alliances (groups of corporations). There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. CCP feels that this allows the player community to make its own decisions about what is and isn't acceptable behavior in EVE's dark galaxy. Says Lander, "EVE is such a complex social game that we can't dictate who's bad."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter


No he's talking about how to claim bounties and not how to apply them to others.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Shadow Cartel
#197 - 2012-10-02 18:49:16 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
So what you're saying, Hans, is that this summary is completely incorrect:

Quote:
So, CCP dumped the whole thing and started over. Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player. Players can also put bounties on corporations (EVE Online's version of guilds) and alliances (groups of corporations). There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. CCP feels that this allows the player community to make its own decisions about what is and isn't acceptable behavior in EVE's dark galaxy. Says Lander, "EVE is such a complex social game that we can't dictate who's bad."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter


Why is this scenario incompatible with the ability to sell / transfer kill rights?

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#198 - 2012-10-02 18:51:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If anyone's thinking that bounty hunting will stop ganking, then they're deluding themselves. Low SP destroyer alts are pretty much unaffected, for instance.

The players who will be affected are high-SP professional gankers, who will become the target of high-SP professional bounty hunters. Apparently some people think this is abloobloobloo unfair.

I was thinking ganking might be a good way to spice up my gameplay after this release... Right now it's pretty boring, but I'll bet a couple of pod kills will get me running. Remind me to train Infomorph Psychology up to IV before I start this.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#199 - 2012-10-02 18:54:21 UTC
I hope any new bounty system would allow me to set up this:

5 billion ISK pool
Paid out at 5% of hull value destroyed.
Paid for destroying any ship flown by a person with a sec status under -5 and not a member of corp qqqq.
Paid to anyone with a sec status over +2 but not members of alliance gggg, or I have set to standings of -5 or less.

Where all the numbers are values I get to set.

Also I should be able to specify who is the target by pilot, ship type, corp, alliance, standings, as well as sec status. I should have an "allowed" list and an "excluded" list. Valid targets are those on the allowed list, but not on the excluded list.

I should be able to set who can collect the bounty by pilot, corp, alliance, standings, as well as sec status. I should have an "allowed" list and an "excluded" list. Valid bounty hunters are those on the allowed list, but not on the excluded list.

For a player in space, all they would do is select a ship and look a the selected item window to see what bounty they would get.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Hrothgar Nilsson
#200 - 2012-10-02 19:02:02 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
So what you're saying, Hans, is that this summary is completely incorrect:

Quote:
So, CCP dumped the whole thing and started over. Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player. Players can also put bounties on corporations (EVE Online's version of guilds) and alliances (groups of corporations). There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. CCP feels that this allows the player community to make its own decisions about what is and isn't acceptable behavior in EVE's dark galaxy. Says Lander, "EVE is such a complex social game that we can't dictate who's bad."

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/29/ccp-unveils-eve-online-retribution-coming-this-winter


Why is this scenario incompatible with the ability to sell / transfer kill rights?

Sorry, I'm not exactly a high-sec dweller - upon a little research I found out kill rights are valid for 30 days. Thought it was 15 minutes, mea culpa.