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[I-RED] Public Release: Dissolution of Cal-Matari Program

Author
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#41 - 2012-10-01 19:50:47 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
There is a very clear reason why the majority of slaves who earn their freedom stay in Amarr, rather than fleeing to the Republic...


Vitoc supply?

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-10-01 19:59:58 UTC
that too.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#43 - 2012-10-01 23:18:20 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
Ugleb wrote:
As fascinating as this cultural analysis is, would anyone care to enlighten this ignorant savage on the matter of what exactly has prompted this decision by I-RED? The 'what' is clear enough, the 'why' is vague at best.

Is this some sort of fall out over the Cartel raids, or something coming from the Capsuleer organisations? Or is it over something else entirely?


The decision to terminate the program was not one made by I-RED, but my myself, overseer of the program's day-to-day operations.

There are various factors that played into the program's termination. A large percentage of Minmatar simply refused any interaction with the Cal-Matari Program, and even insulted the integrity of our actions. If our assistance and cooperation is not wanted, then we will honor such a decision. Additionally, the Cal-Matari Program was beginning to prove to be a financial burden I-RED cannot afford to contribute to. Various business contracts established via the program helped ease the financial burden, as well as the rare ISK donation, but these methods were not substantial enough to counter-act the drain on our funds. With our current deployment, as well as continued growth and influence in Syndicate, I-RED simply cannot afford to maintain the program and all it's divisions - our resources are stretched too far as it is. I greatly underestimated the financial strain the program would have on I-RED. Furthermore, the Republic government under Shakor consistently proved problematic for the Cal-Matari Program. Unwarranted search and seizures of Cal-Matari transport vessels were quite frequent. This, to me, is another clear indication that the Cal-Matari Program is not wanted.

I hope I made the reasoning behind the decision clear now.


To be perfectly honest the first time im hearing of this cal-matar program is in its closure thread, instead of blaming unco-operative savages, maybe you could have actually contacted some Minmatar? just a suggestion.

.....

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#44 - 2012-10-02 00:36:29 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
To be perfectly honest the first time im hearing of this cal-matar program is in its closure thread, instead of blaming unco-operative savages, maybe you could have actually contacted some Minmatar? just a suggestion.


Why you call yourselves savages is confusing, and if you look for a few moments you will see Ishukone-Raata along side the Cal-Matari Program had attempted to contact the Minmatar groups on several occasions. All of which were met with a stern opposition effectively barring our support to many Matari citizens.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#45 - 2012-10-02 01:40:49 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
To be perfectly honest the first time im hearing of this cal-matar program is in its closure thread, instead of blaming unco-operative savages, maybe you could have actually contacted some Minmatar? just a suggestion.


Why you call yourselves savages is confusing, and if you look for a few moments you will see Ishukone-Raata along side the Cal-Matari Program had attempted to contact the Minmatar groups on several occasions. All of which were met with a stern opposition effectively barring our support to many Matari citizens.


I guess Teraa Matar/Skadi's Call dont qualify as "minmatar groups" and met you with "stern opposition".

Lying is a new low for you, John.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#46 - 2012-10-02 04:01:12 UTC
This...It makes me sad :(

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#47 - 2012-10-02 09:18:27 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
John Revenent wrote:
Why you call yourselves savages is confusing, and if you look for a few moments you will see Ishukone-Raata along side the Cal-Matari Program had attempted to contact the Minmatar groups on several occasions. All of which were met with a stern opposition effectively barring our support to many Matari citizens.


I guess Teraa Matar/Skadi's Call dont qualify as "minmatar groups" and met you with "stern opposition".

Lying is a new low for you, John.


Both are defunct organizations at this time.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#48 - 2012-10-03 21:54:36 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
To be perfectly honest the first time im hearing of this cal-matar program is in its closure thread, instead of blaming unco-operative savages, maybe you could have actually contacted some Minmatar? just a suggestion.


Why you call yourselves savages is confusing, and if you look for a few moments you will see Ishukone-Raata along side the Cal-Matari Program had attempted to contact the Minmatar groups on several occasions. All of which were met with a stern opposition effectively barring our support to many Matari citizens.


We have been repeatedly referred to as 'savages' in this discussion, we point to it as one likely explanation for why this venture has faltered; crass condescension.

As for I-RED/Ushra'Khan relations, the last real contact I recall between our organisations was back in Providence, which is probably around 2 years ago now. Back then we were highly wary of your links to the CVA and involvement in Amarrian Providence. Ours is a long and chequered relationship, I'm sure you will agree.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#49 - 2012-10-03 23:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
For my own part, it has been a distinct honor to work with the Minmatar both in this program and on a personal level. I take pride in my work, and greatly respect the Minmatar people for their determined adaptability. That this program has ended is quite sad to see, and I took no pleasure from signing the closure paperwork.

I salute you, people of Matar. Truly, you are worthy of our deepest respect.

Respectfully,
Shosho Katrina Oniseki (R.D.C)
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive

P.S. - Oh, and Ava? Feel free to contact me anytime for a good chat over tea and lunch. Politics need not herald the end of a good friendship.

Katrina Oniseki

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#50 - 2012-10-04 02:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Emile Belfleur
Milton Middleson wrote:
She may wrap herself in the Caldari flag, but it is hard for aristocrats to conceal their true nature.

Wherever her loyalties may lie, I sincerely doubt that Captain Kim has a single drop of blue blood in her veins. Just like Mr. Heth, her utterances have a distinct proletarian stench about them.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#51 - 2012-10-04 03:38:18 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
[quote=Amaki Mai]She may wrap herself in the Caldari flag, but it is hard for aristocrats to conceal their true nature.

Wherever her loyalties may lie, I sincerely doubt that Captain Kim has a single drop of blue blood in her veins. Just like Mr. Heth, her utterances have a distinct proletarian stench about them.


I am proud to be counted amongst the proletariat of Lai Dai and the State. No doubt, Kim haani is as well.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#52 - 2012-10-04 04:06:31 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I am proud to be counted amongst the proletariat of Lai Dai and the State. No doubt, Kim haani is as well.

I have no doubt you are correct. The misassumption I addressed wasn't yours.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-10-04 10:14:10 UTC
I thought on this topic earlier, as I lighted some candles. I admit, it has caused me some unease. In the past, I have answered to I-RED's call for funding - specifically from interested Minmatar parties, strangely. The talks were obfuscated and my offer dismissed, before I-RED suddenly pulled out of Republican borders altogether. If I recall, the tag-line 'that space didn't want us, anyway' was thrown about.

... The smoke ran thick as I brewed it over. I noticed that the flames of the aforementioned candles that I had burning had created some damaging soot. A troubling omen, I thought.

I do find it quite interesting that I-RED made that public announcement so hurriedly before pulling their assets out of the Republic. It isn't until now that I have meditated on it, however; here we have another announcement, oh so public, encouraging even unaffiliated parties to flock.

This message is steeped in emotion. Oh, no, you do try hard to hide it, but I taste it. Not unlike another thread concerning a Caldari entity, produced by a good friend, which wasn't all that long ago... There is more here than what meets the eye.

Do not try to blame the Matari people for this decision. I see right through you. So what is actually going on, here?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#54 - 2012-10-04 10:27:05 UTC
Halete wrote:
So what is actually going on, here?


After reading the statement from Korsavius, the actual reasons are ISK.

Not everything needs be solved by ISK.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-10-04 10:30:35 UTC
ISK a factor, yes, yes. The reason? No. Certainly not the whole reason.

Was this venture going to be expensive? Of course it was. It was always going to be. It would take a long, long time to come to fruition. Even someone with as little business acumen as myself can see that.

Korsavius, my brother. Whatever your reasons, I hope that you are not crushed under the weight of the shame that you now carry. I, for one, could not bear that burden and I dare-say that I suspect my spirit is stronger than your own.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#56 - 2012-10-04 10:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Korsavius
Astroyka wrote:
Halete wrote:
So what is actually going on, here?


After reading the statement from Korsavius, the actual reasons are ISK.

Not everything needs be solved by ISK.


Without ISK, how would we pay the Republic citizens who were employed under us? How would we produce the goods and supplies we donated to various charities and capsuleer organizations? ISK is most definitely a determining factor.

Halete wrote:
I thought on this topic earlier, as I lighted some candles. I admit, it has caused me some unease. In the past, I have answered to I-RED's call for funding - specifically from interested Minmatar parties, strangely. The talks were obfuscated and my offer dismissed, before I-RED suddenly pulled out of Republican borders altogether.


I do not recall ever receiving a financial aid offer from your organization. Perhaps any inquiries you had should have been brought up directly with me?

On the contrary, I do specifically remember offering talks with you in regards to starting up a relationship between our two organizations - an offer that was never taken up.

Halete wrote:
Do not try to blame the Matari people for this decision. I see right through you.


I do not blame the Minmatar for anything. I am only disappointed and disheartened by a fair portion's lack of interest in the program. You say you see right through me, but what am I trying to hide?

Halete wrote:
Korsavius, my brother. Whatever your reasons, I hope that you are not crushed under the weight of the shame that you now carry. I, for one, could not bear that burden and I dare-say that I suspect my spirit is stronger than your own.


Undoubtedly. Although my upbringings were as troubled as any Minmatar's, I was fortunate enough to be lifted from those troubles at a relatively early age, and thus, I never endured what most Minmatar do. Despite this venture leaving me somewhat troubled, I will endure and prosper - it is the spirit of the Caldari way. There is much work to be done around Syndicate, and I gladly meet the challenge.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-10-04 11:01:38 UTC
This is starting to sound awfully he-says, she-says, isn't it?

No matter. Your lack of remorse regarding the topic speaks enough to me.

I retract my earlier sentiment of kinship. You disappoint me greatly.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#58 - 2012-10-04 11:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Korsavius
Halete wrote:
This is starting to sound awfully he-says, she-says, isn't it?

No matter. Your lack of remorse regarding the topic speaks enough to me.

I retract my earlier sentiment of kinship. You disappoint me greatly.


I don't see how you perceive my response as "he-says-she-says", they were simple and straight-forward questions designed to obtain a more clearer explanation for the reasoning of your statements..

Remorse? I do have remorse. People like Ava would know this. However, it is not something I can afford to dwell on when there is so much to be done around Syndicate and Placid.

You'll have to forgive my sense of practicality, it is often a trait that people misunderstand.

Furthermore, I did invest heavily emotionally, mentally, and physically in this project. Since it is over and done with, it is time for me to move on. Dwelling on remorse and disappointment would only taint my performance in my duties and put a drain my personal health. I have no intentions of abandoning the friendships I have made in the Republic. Beyond this, however, I have no further interest in dealing with the Republic or Republic-affiliated entities.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2012-10-04 12:07:02 UTC
It is a shame to see this initiative fail, but a lack of interest makes the rewards for the effort that seems to have been put into the foundation unlikely to return on initial investment of money, resources and man-hours. It is disappointing that we must see important social initiatives in these three terms, but there are too few objective quantifiers to allow for any other way of ensuring that an initiative is worth the time spent on it.

I too have come to the State as an outsider, Korsavius. I understand that as a representative of your ethnicity and the State, your behavior, actions and judgement can be misconstrued. Understand that this is more due to the nature of those observing you, than of yourself. Many define themselves by their blood or birth, but all who earn a living in the State are Caldari, regardless of minority radical assertions to the contrary. We are a nation of action and integrity, something that can lead to upsetting conflict with others who share our legacy of ancestral parentage when viewed through the lens of blood-loyalty and other base values that place the accident of birth above the necessities of life in the present.

I do not pretend to understand the critical points of failure in the CalMatar program; no doubt they range from the extremes of Matari disinterest to a less than stellar marketing campaign from the otherwise socio-economically savvy Ishukone capsuleer community. What I do see here is a future for Cal-Matari cooperation outside of the staid purview of a single Megacorporation. Both baseline and capsuleer Matari continue to seek employment within our fine nation and people will be needed to pass on the story of their trials to become accepted as citizens in this State. CalMatar may be off the books for I-RED, and for good reason, but the wider issue of cluster-scale immigration into State border regions (driven in part by the flow of human traffic, legitimate and otherwise, facilitated by the freedom of capsuleer vessels to cross borders) remains a potential social powder-keg.

What I see here is the not merely the end of the CalMatar program. It is a rare insight into the need for individual responsibility among State capsuleers, in the interests of advising those unsuited to our way of life against pursuing a short-lived, enmity breeding life here, and easing the journey of those who would find State life to be the rewarding experience that we have found it to be.

It is my hope that the greater State capsuleer community will follow up in I-REDs footsteps, learning that a funded initiative is not the way forwards, but individual social awareness and responsibility is required to ensure that our cultural borders remain strong, representative of our way of life and continue to accept those few members of non-native bloodlines who meet the standards expected of citizenry.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-10-15 22:04:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Korsavius wrote:
...

I told you.

Horak Thor wrote:
I believe the Caldari and Minmatar have alot in common

Wrong.
And please don't compare superior Caldari with these primitive savages.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
This sort of thing was inevitable. The Minmatar are not culturally compatible with us.

Caldari, like Amarr, believe that freedom is a reward for one's deeds, even though the paths our races choose to reach said freedom are different. An Amarr citizen may have started as a slave, attained religious enlightenment, be freed by his master, ascend in society, come to own his own slaves, and in turn free them as they become enlightened. A Caldari citizen starts out as a worker, advances to manager, then company owner; if his company performs, it is bought up and integrated by a larger company; he gains employees to delegate to, greater freedom of business decision. In each step, while his responsibilities grow, so does his freedom.

The other two races active in the cluster are quite different.

The Gallente taught us Caldari what their idea of freedom means: the freedom to be like them. The Minmatar, like the Gallente, believe that freedom is innate, undeserved, un-earned, and available from birth (or should be) - no doubt due to the close relationship Minmatar enjoy with the Gallente and their culture of debauched permissiveness.

I strongly disagree with... position you are looking at it.
Freedom is a chaos. Freedom is a destruction. Freedom is emptiness. Freedom is criminality. Freedom is a concept, developed by gallentean scum to promote their low egocentric interests opposite to interests of community. Gallenteans are second-grade peoples, don't take their wicked concepts!

In the State you don't get more, akhem, 'freedoms', or abilities to make more decisions with climbing corporate ladder. You just get ability to make decisions on different levels and lose ability to make decisions on level you took before. Manager doesn't have ability to take decisions that regular worker makes every day. Every position has its own limitations, duties and areas to make decisions with. You take "higher" position not to get "more freedoms", but because you are better trained to perform your duties on new position, than on your older position.


We don't compare you with savages, we compare you with thugs. The Caldari hate freedom because they're incapable of using it effectively. They work best when oppressed by their own people. Centuries of despotic regimes on barely habitable worlds have shown us that feudal warfare between arbitrarily subdivided factions of nearly-starving populace is the Caldari way of life. We fought you fools in the secession war because we believed your people deserve better than your cultural evolution allows.