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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#361 - 2011-10-17 07:50:23 UTC
Botleten wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


Think you need to read again..everyone else seems to understand it..



Are you stupid or just blind? There's 18 pages of people call you an idiot in this thread. Your OP has 2100 views and 31 likes... you do the math. Somewhere in the range of 1.5% of people agree with you...


Sorry i got lost in all the goon alt posts, If you think this derails anything, you are sadly mistaken.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#362 - 2011-10-17 07:52:17 UTC
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members notr is it the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.


So whats the point?



The point being that CCP set up the CSM to represent the whole of the EVE players base and not as has happened to further the aims of a minority who happen to get most of the CSM members elected.

Don't know about the USA but in the UK no matter what party the MP belongs to it is their duty to represent the WHOLE of their consitiuents' interests not just those voters of the party to which they belong.


I think you may find that in the UK, we have local councils which represent the constituents, and we have national government that represents the WHOLE of the UK

The CSM are not local they are in these terms national...
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2011-10-17 07:52:31 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Xython wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
So whats the point?


The point of the CSM? To represent the player base and bring things up in an orderly fashion.

(If I recall correctly, wasn't the CSM founded after some CCP Dev got caught leaking information to Band of Brothers, or somesuch nonsense? I'm not fully versed in my ancient New Eden history.)



No your point...

and yes to REPRESENT THE PLAYERBASE.... think about that for the moment. also 'for the greater good of the playerbase'

are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, absolutely. He's killing ice miner bots. That is by definition the best possible thing people can do if they love EVE and want to see it continue.

A close second is creating "user content" -- and by god, the Gallente Ice fields haven't been this exciting in 3+ years. He's getting people to talk. He's getting people to login. He's shaking up the markets. He's making the game interesting again.

So yes, Mittani's most recent actions have been very, VERY good for the game.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#364 - 2011-10-17 07:52:31 UTC
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members nor should it be the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.



But that describes his activities as a CSM, not his activities in-game.

How, specifcally, have his actions within the CSM contravened that mandate?

I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2011-10-17 07:52:45 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, or at the very least neutral.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2011-10-17 07:54:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?


None of them have an answer for you.

Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they don't even know one thing he's done good OR bad in the CSM.

They're just mad that Goons have switched to pirating ice miners, killed their ice miner bots, and The Mittani is the most easily talked about name involved. That's it. They have no complaints about his activities as CSM, they're just desperately trying to use it as a wedge to control and/or punish him.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#367 - 2011-10-17 07:54:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members nor should it be the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.



But that describes his activities as a CSM, not his activities in-game.

How, specifcally, have his actions within the CSM contravened that mandate?

I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?


Lets put this question to you.

Do you think its right that the chair of the CSM, who is supposed to represent the playerbase, and act for the 'greater good' of the playerbase, uses his position to scam people in game?

Do you?

just a simple yes or no.. if you vote yes then this is everything that is wrong about eve and the CSM...
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#368 - 2011-10-17 07:55:40 UTC
Xython wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?


None of them have an answer for you.

Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they don't even know one thing he's done good OR bad in the CSM.

They're just mad that Goons have switched to pirating ice miners, killed their ice miner bots, and The Mittani is the most easily talked about name involved. That's it. They have no complaints about his activities as CSM, they're just desperately trying to use it as a wedge to control and/or punish him.


Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to...
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#369 - 2011-10-17 07:57:01 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, or at the very least neutral.


Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2011-10-17 07:57:50 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to...

Ah so you don't want an actual discussion...you just want to rant and hear back from your sock puppets.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#371 - 2011-10-17 07:58:36 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"

Fight? Where?

Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification?

Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad.




Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh.

So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it?


You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming.
If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty.

Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously


Do you have any actual evidence of any CSM member using a CSM query made by another player to scam them or is it something you just dreamed up that they MIGHT do?

Contrariwise, since when were the CSM members supposed to be of purest virtue within their normal in-game play? The CSM chair of the previous CSM, Mynxee, was a ruthless and implacable pirate, for instance.

You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#372 - 2011-10-17 07:58:39 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to...

Ah so you don't want an actual discussion...you just want to rant and hear back from your sock puppets.


I must reply, i would like a NON BIASED discussion, sadly you cant do that...
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2011-10-17 07:59:53 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....


Scamming, ganking, etc, within the rules is competition. Competition creates content. Content creates the game.

I don't think you ~get~ Eve.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2011-10-17 08:00:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone


Excellent analogy. I wish I had thought of it.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#375 - 2011-10-17 08:00:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"

Fight? Where?

Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification?

Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad.




Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh.

So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it?


You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming.
If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty.

Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously


Do you have any actual evidence of any CSM member using a CSM query made by another player to scam them or is it something you just dreamed up that they MIGHT do?

Contrariwise, since when were the CSM members supposed to be of purest virtue within their normal in-game play? The CSM chair of the previous CSM, Mynxee, was a ruthless and implacable pirate, for instance.

You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone


Hang on piracy and scamming is not the same thing... and president scamming his MATES and a President scamming his people is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, if he was found to be abusing his power, he would be removed from office.. The people would demand it..Simple...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#376 - 2011-10-17 08:01:22 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, or at the very least neutral.


Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....



Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#377 - 2011-10-17 08:01:41 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone


Excellent analogy. I wish I had thought of it.


Errr no its not, see my response..are you alt liking your own post Mal?
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#378 - 2011-10-17 08:02:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, or at the very least neutral.


Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....



Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect.


Yeah great answer...oh dear...What?
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#379 - 2011-10-17 08:03:08 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

A real fighter... Not some dimwit standing on the street shooting his mouth off with 100 mates to back him up (analogy G&&ns).





Meh, I'll take my bushrangers like Captain Thunderbolt, a gentleman who left a life of ease (high sec) for thrills n spills (0.0).
If I recall correctly, his dying words were his beloved's name.

The Kellys had more excuses than a pregnant nun.

Just sayin'.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#380 - 2011-10-17 08:03:37 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?


Yes, or at the very least neutral.


Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....



Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect.


Yeah great answer...oh dear...What?


Well, yes. I am not seeing you coming up anything greater.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.