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Lack of All Race Non-Capital Carriers
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Ryosuke Shinohara
vetus oculus
#1 - 2012-09-30 14:02:50 UTC
The Reason:
I have decided to present this concept as there is currently a lack of race specific Battle-Carriers if you will, Battleship sized Carriers specializing in Drone Warfare. Those looking to pilot a Carrier someday that would like to learn in something a little less costly have been pretty much forced into Gallente BattleShip lines, But I think it would be more beneficial to people looking to get into carriers to have something that more closely resembles their chosen races line. These Ideas have probably been covered Numerous times However, I figured I'd have nothing to lose by throwing in my 2 Cents and seeing what you would think.


The Goal:
New Battleships capable of acting as a training ground for a Carrier That are usable in High Security, which allows people to learn to manage drones in a more cost efficient manner.

The Drawback of this:
No High Slot Weaponry, if the goal is to learn to manage drones and prepare for a Carrier, then you should get used to not having high slot weapon hard points.

The Ships:
I have a few sample fitting setups I would like to submit, just to see what you would think. I would appreciate feedback on this to help something like this get Implemented.


Amarr

Name: ???

Bonuses:
Role Bonus - 200% Control Range Bonus to Drones
Can Launch 1 Extra drone per level
10% Increase per level to drone HP
5% Bonus to Armor Resistance per Level

Fittings:

High Slots: 4

Mid Slots: 4

Low Slots: 7

Capacitor (Capacity/Recharge): 6500GJ/1250sec
Shield HP: 5000
Armor HP: 9000
Structure HP: 9000
8 Target Max Lock
Cargo Bay: 550m3
Drone Bay: 625m3
Drone Bandwidth 125
Max Targeting Range 75km
Scan Resolution: 85mm
Sensor Strength: Radar 25
Signature Radius: 520m
Max Velocity: 80 m/s
Warp Speed: 2.5 AU


Caldari

Name ???

Bonuses:
Role Bonus - 200% Control Range Bonus to Drones
Can Launch 1 Extra drone per level
10% Increase per level to drone HP
5% Bonus to Shield Resistance Per Level

Fittings:

High Slots: 4

Mid Slots: 6

Low Slots: 5

Capacitor (Capacity/Recharge): 6000GJ/1250sec
Shield HP: 9500
Armor HP: 6500
Structure HP: 7000
8 Target Max Lock
Cargo Bay: 600m3
Drone Bay: 625m3
Drone Bandwidth 125
Max Targeting Range: 90km
Scan Resolution 75mm
Sensor Strength: Gravimetric 26
Signature Radius: 575m
Max Velocity: 72 m/s
Warp Speed 2.5 AU


Minmatar

Name ???

Bonuses:
Role Bonus - 200% Control Range Bonus to Drones
Can Launch 1 Extra drone per level
10% Increase per level to drone HP
7.5% Bonus to Shield Boost amount per Level

Fittings:

High Slots: 4

Mid Slots: 7

Low Slots: 4

Capacitor (Capacity/Recharge): 6250GJ/1250sec
Shield HP: 9000
Armor HP: 7000
Structure HP: 7250
8 Target Max Lock
Cargo Bay: 650m3
Drone Bay: 625m3
Drone Bandwidth 125
Max Targeting Range: 70km
Scan Resolution: 90mm
Sensor Strength: Ladar 23
Signature Radius: 495m
Max Velocity: 99 m/s
Warp Speed 2.5 AU


Gallente

Name: ???

Bonuses:
Role Bonus - 200% Control Range Bonus to Drones
Can Launch 1 Extra drone per level
10% Increase per level to drone HP
7.5% Bonus to Armor Repairer Repair amount per level

Fittings:

High Slots: 4

Mid Slots: 5

Low Slots: 6

Capacitor (Capacity/Recharge): 7200GJ/1250sec
Shield HP: 7000
Armor HP: 9000
Structure HP: 8500
8 Target Max Lock
Cargo Bay: 675m3
Drone Bay: 625m3
Max Targeting Range: 60km
Scan Resolution 110mm
Sensor Strength: 23 Magnetometric
Max Velocity: 105 m/s
Warp Speed 2.5 AU

That should be enough information for you to run a test and see what you think, If I have posted this in the wrong Forum section then My Apologies on that. Thank you for your time in reading this and any suggestions you leave are appreciated.

Regards
Ryo
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2 - 2012-09-30 14:44:17 UTC
Why does every idea around new carriers have to be yet another dull ass battleship hull......

We have enough battleships.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-09-30 15:32:25 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Why does every idea around new carriers have to be yet another dull ass battleship hull......

We have enough battleships.


because they want to AFK level 4 missions in highsec of course.


Just use a dominix/rattlesnake/something.
Ryosuke Shinohara
vetus oculus
#4 - 2012-09-30 16:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryosuke Shinohara
If I wanted to AFK level 4 missions I would use a navy domi or a Snake, as I mentioned in the post, There is a lack of other hulls the only versions are for Gallente which means if you tried to go to Caldari carrier for example, you will be going along a complete reversal of its tanking and playstyle origins. On that note the other advantage is moving around multiple groups of drones at once, instead of a group of 5 with damage bonuses you could control 10 attacking with both Heavy drones, and Light scouts in the case of a tackler frigate, or Drones.
None the less thanks for the Replies, I also never mentioned it had to be a battleship, I was asking for suggestions though.

Regards
Ryo
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#5 - 2012-09-30 17:21:13 UTC
I doubt these mini-carriers add anything of value to the combat in EVE. Besides, carriers are not that hard to fly that you would need a special training ship for them.

Just get yourself a carrier and see.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2012-09-30 18:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Sheynan wrote:
I doubt these mini-carriers add anything of value to the combat in EVE. Besides, carriers are not that hard to fly that you would need a special training ship for them.

Just get yourself a carrier and see.

^^ This.
Drones are the easiest system to operate on a carrier because...
1. You need to skill up in drones anyways if you want to operate anything bigger than a cruiser.
2. The interface is exactly the same.
3. Fighters are only affected by the skill "Fighters" and the carrier bonuses. None of the other drone skills apply.
4. Fighters [almost] behave like any other drone... except for the fact that you can't "leave them behind" as easily (they can warp back).

The ship itself basically operates similar to an overtanked logistics ship... minus the mobility logistics pilots are used to.
Without having to worry about flight paths and keeping up speed, all you have to do as a carrier pilot is gauge whether or not you can soak up the damage and live.
For example: I have a Thanatos with a 2k DPS tank out of Tirage and 9 to 10k tank in Triage... if each BS pumps out an average of 600 to 700 DPS I can survive about 3 battleships out of Triage and 12 to 15 battleships in Triage... provided I don't get energy neuted.

Jump drives are probably the hardest thing to understand about carriers (and capitals in general). However, adding such functionality to sub capitals for cheap cost might not be the best idea as we currently have an issue with people projecting power across the star map.
Plus, solo players will harp and complain more because they will need friends/alts to gain that advantage too.

Everything else about a carrier can be learned in the hanger at one's leisure.

How did you Veterans start?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-09-30 19:12:14 UTC
Ryosuka Shinohara wrote:
Battleship sized Carriers specializing in Drone Warfare.

Domi/Navy Domi, Rattlesnake, Typhoon/Fleet Typhoon (sure it doesn't have bonuses, but its got a large drone bay, and a lot of lows to stick in drone damage augmentors). The Geddon/NGeddon isn't bad either.
It can even be fun to fit a drone boat Mega (its a workable, but LULZ-y fit)


Ryosuke Shinohara wrote:
If I wanted to AFK level 4 missions I would use a navy domi or a Snake,

You'd use a rattler, better passive tank, **** DPS from its highs. The (Navy) Domi is more suited ot active play, as it has 6 bonused weapon slots to the Rattler's 4 unbonused weapon slots (and cruise missiles have **** DPS, while torps have **** range and explosion radii)

Ryosuke Shinohara wrote:
as I mentioned in the post, There is a lack of other hulls the only versions are for Gallente which means if you tried to go to Caldari carrier for example, you will be going along a complete reversal of its tanking and playstyle origins.

#1) there is the rattler, and other BS hulls with a large drone bay and lots of lows for drone damage mods,
#2) The Domi is one of those Gallente ships that you can shield or armor tank, so going to a caldari carrier is not a complete reversal of its tanking. As to playstyle - how is it different in a way that is specific to Gallente? its a huge logi that launches drones and is nigh immoble. A big RR senty domi?


Ryosuke Shinohara wrote:
I also never mentioned it had to be a battleship

See the first quotation
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#8 - 2012-09-30 19:38:08 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:

radii


you said radii... hehehehe

seriously though, the idea of race specific battleship class drone boats has been proposed a lot, the escort carrier thread is pretty good, but at the end of the day the idea that it needs to be a "carrier" is crappy, and giving it logi abilities like a carrier is also no good. i like the idea of a battleship sized varient of a battlecruiser or destroyer that might have massive drone bays and fleet boosting abilities, but it needs to be something unique for each race and something cool and new not just a "mini" carrier or a size variation on one ship ora another
Lamar Iniquity
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-01 02:01:45 UTC
perhaps an addition to the command ship line, lets face Fleet command ships provide everything a carrier offers minus the capital class support abilities. a change to them to also have Logistic bonuses or a new logistic/gang link command ship would be interesting. The fact that Fleet command requires logistic ships 4 or 5 (i dont remember) suggest that it would share in its capabilities.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2012-10-01 06:22:00 UTC
Lamar Iniquity wrote:
The fact that Fleet command requires logistic ships 4 or 5 (i dont remember) suggest that it would share in its capabilities.

Logi 4. And yeah... CCP have stated quite clearly in their DEV blogs that they intend to "clean up" that little bit... along with most of the other T2 ship requirements.

How did you Veterans start?
Esker Sheep
Solos Nexus
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2012-10-01 11:57:47 UTC
This isn't a way of training for carrier, but rather a way of getting a carrier like ship into high-sec.

Given that its possible to complete L4 missions in a drone Domi, and this is a drone Domi x 2, I can't see the justification other than allowing missions to be run quicker. Which would unbalance things by increasing the flow of ISK and LP into the game.

I'd say no.
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#12 - 2012-10-01 17:42:28 UTC
Eh, I'd rather see a Tech II Orca that's for exploration instead of Mining.

Generic mindlink bonus instead of mining only. Bonus to Probe strength. Couple extra slots (no turrets, no more than 5 drones, still no offensive capabilities).

We have enough people using the Orca for 'daytripping' and 'exploration', why not have a Tech II hull that's a little more geared toward that?
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-10-01 21:30:44 UTC
with the NPC retargeting this could be ok.

the armageddon could be a re-purposed to a drone boat, switch bonuses and maybe add some drone bay.
dominix is drone pro
scorpion could easily be a drone boat add drones/drone damage bonus

the minmitar race is the only one that it would probably need a serious reworking or a new battleship.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#14 - 2012-10-01 21:50:07 UTC
On a side note, the Amarr and the Minmatar have battleships with 125 Mbit drone bandwidth too. So basically it's only the caldari who lack a link there, unless you count the Rattlesnake.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#15 - 2012-10-01 22:49:43 UTC
Ryosuke Shinohara wrote:
Those looking to pilot a Carrier someday that would like to learn in something a little less costly


You don't learn to fly a carrier by buying one and immediately taking it out for a spin. You learn to fly a carrier before you even buy one, by surrounding yourself with people who are already well-versed in how to handle carriers and listening to their advice.

Now, whether that advice is good or bad is where your critical thinking skills need to kick in.