These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Question about wormholes (statics vs wandering holes)

Author
Nex apparatu5
Blackwood Co.
#1 - 2012-10-01 00:40:21 UTC
So if I understand wormholes correctly, there are two types of wormholes, statics and "wandering holes". Statics are one per system (except C2s) and don't actually go anywhere until you warp to them. This opens a wormhole in another system which can then be scanned down and used by other players.

The second type of wormhole is "wandering" wormholes. These will randomly spawn and (at least in C5/C6s) lead to k-space.

So my question is this. Let's say I close all the "wandering" and incoming statics to a system. I assume this means no one could use my static. How often could I expect a new "wandering wormhole" to spawn? It seems like, in general, the only real threat would be big PVP corps cycling their static to catch people.

I know we'll get caught and die eventually, but I'm looking to make PVE as safe as possible. Oh, and how long do sites last if you only farm the cap escalations? I know they respawn at downtime, but how many days until they despawn?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2012-10-01 01:08:12 UTC
In 2+ years of wormhole stuff I've hardly ever seen an outgoing wandering hole spawn during doing PVE and only a handful of times had incoming k162s during sites and most of those were other people's statics. Off the top of my head we probably get 2-3 wandering outgoing holes spawn in any week on average.
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-10-01 01:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sith1s Spectre
In our C5, we rarely get "periodic" (what you call wandering) holes. I'd say probably 1 per week tops, but it's usually more like 1 a month.

The periodics you can get depend on the hole you are in, you can get ones to K space - HS, LS,Null ect and also to other WHs

Then there's the other side of the coin with incoming K162s which means someone on the otherside has opened that hole into yours.

As a general rule of thumb, always keep a combat or deep space probe out and cycle it every time you would normally dscan, it should reduce the chance of the surprise buttsex that will eventually happen.

On the farming side, someone may correct me but i believe it's 3 days (i don't pve that much)

Cheers,

Sith

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-10-01 02:26:11 UTC
Their spawns are as random as any other sig. I rarely get outbound random WH's. This week however I have gotten 2 within 48 hours.

I will get random incomings (like from HS LS or NS) peridically. And then there are the other incomings which is someone elses static.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-10-01 02:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
wandering WHs also only spawn when warped to.
they can be kspace > WH, WH > kspace and WH > WH. (also kspace > kspace but that isnt really relevent for WH dwellers.)
by far the most common incoming WHs to your system will be the exits of other people's statics and they are fairly common with the frequency highly depending on the class of WH you are in.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#6 - 2012-10-01 08:41:29 UTC
Everything said so far is pretty solid.

Nex apparatu5 wrote:

How often could I expect a new "wandering wormhole" to spawn?

In a sample of scans of a class 1 system (J125713) running from 4/18/2012 to 6/12/2012 (a 55 day span) in which 9 days of scanning were missed (for total of 46 data points), there were a total of 17 K162s (with no more than 2 on any given day in the sample) and 2 wandering wormholes (H121 and L614). Thus, in this sample, the odds of a K162 on any given day were a bit less than 37% and the odds of a wandering wormhole were about 4.3%. Other classes of system are likely to have different rates of formation, simply because of how quickly the sites are cycled. Since C1s are largely less populated than other areas, it's likely the rates will be a bit higher elsewhere (except maybe C6s).

However, as Jack Miton said earlier, these wandering wormholes (the H121 and L614 in the above case) only create a K162 when someone initiates a warp to them, so they aren't a security risk unless someone else is in your system and scanning.

Nex apparatu5 wrote:

It seems like, in general, the only real threat would be big PVP corps cycling their static to catch people.

You might want to consider that there are, on average, around 300-400 other w-space systems with statics that lead to where ever you are, and, on top of that, there are hundreds more wandering wormholes throughout k-space and w-space which could randomly lead to your system. Even big corps cycling holes as fast as they can could have trouble competing with the shear volume of possible random connections. So the odds are good that when someone finds you, it may not be a big corp at all.

Nex apparatu5 wrote:

...how long do sites last if you only farm the cap escalations? I know they respawn at downtime, but how many days until they despawn?

All sites last at most 3 days once activated (by someone initiating a warp to them). Combat sites may despawn sooner if they are completed. Grav and ladar sites will last the full 3 days and can even respawn asteroids. If a site is not activated, it seems to last indefinitely.
Nex apparatu5
Blackwood Co.
#7 - 2012-10-01 13:41:27 UTC
Thanks, the information has been really helpful.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#8 - 2012-10-01 14:22:49 UTC
I've lived in a couple of different systems for periods of several months, and the number of non-static wormholes varied considerably. Therefore I believe that there are indeed constellation or region statics which are very unevenly distributed.

For example I lived in a C2 for about a year and we got very few non-static outgoing holes, maybe 2-3 per month. Later I lived in another C2 where I had non-static outgoing C1 and C3 at least every week for several months. I theorize that those holes belonged to the constellation. When they despawned in my system they respawned in another system of my constellation, and when they were triggered there and despawned, there was a high probability they'd come back to me.

Sites despawn 72 hours after activation, but at the following downtime. So activated sites last for 3-4 days or until completed. Not sure about gravs, but ladar sites despawn when all the gas is harvested.

.

Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#9 - 2012-10-01 14:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashimat
Terrorfrodo wrote:
I've lived in a couple of different systems for periods of several months, and the number of non-static wormholes varied considerably. Therefore I believe that there are indeed constellation or region statics which are very unevenly distributed.

That's interesting. A year ago I lived in a C5/C6 and to the best of my recollection, we had a direct LS/HS once or twice a month, and maybe a Nullsec once a week.

Since 3 weeks back I find myself in another C5 (static C5 this time) and it feels like this system have a WH generator hidden somewhere. We have seen countless of nullsecs, at least 3 lowsecs and a HS.

Just now (or last scan 3h ago) we have a total of seven WH in this system; 4 null, a K162 C6 and a "wandering" C2 (+ the static C5 ofc)

Edit: Maybe it's just that now there is a lot bigger chance to get K162s from null than it was before. I just saw that our static C5 also have 4 nullsecs in it :)

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#10 - 2012-10-01 14:59:05 UTC
On constellation statics: not all the data is in yet, but I'm toying with the idea that these don't exist. I once found a post (and am not sure where it is now... shoulda BM'd it) from way back in the early days of wormholes, where a dev says something to the effect "we're going to increase the connectivity of the wormhole network". Surrounding posts, indicate that shortly there after Class 2 systems got there second static.... that is to say C2s didn't always have 2 statics. If that's the case and C2s followed the same scheme as most other classes of systems, then there were C2 statics to High Sec, and all other C2 wormholes were "wandering" wormholes to w-space. When this change happened, the second static was created and, we can see, that it is always to w-space. I posit, that, meanwhile, the C2 wandering wormholes were were not removed. From our perspective this means that from time to time an "extra" wormhole of the w-space static type would appear. These "extra" wormholes aren't "static" type at all, but the remnants of the C2 wandering wormhole network.

My supporting evidence of this so far is over 100 daily data points in C1 space (many of which are from systems that share the same constellation), none of which has an "extra" static. Meanwhile in just over 20 data points in C2 space, there is 1 "extra" static (which is the same, nearly 5% rate of occurrence I mentioned earlier for "wandering wormholes" in C1 space). I still need to examine other classes of w-space, but I suspect stories of extra statics in C3s may be in error (I haven't heard any stories of extra statics in c5 or c6s, and I have had someone with over 3 months of data state there were no extra statics in c4 space).

@Ashimat, There's probably a lot more "churn" in the wormhole network these days, so new holes are a lot quicker to cycle through. Also, there's indications that Quantum Flux Generators are very likely to create a variant of the N432 wormhole from null to c5, adding to the total number of N432s rather than pulling one from the existing network. Thus the odds of a N432 may actually be higher.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#11 - 2012-10-04 08:43:23 UTC
Faulx wrote:
@Ashimat, There's probably a lot more "churn" in the wormhole network these days, so new holes are a lot quicker to cycle through. Also, there's indications that Quantum Flux Generators are very likely to create a variant of the N432 wormhole from null to c5, adding to the total number of N432s rather than pulling one from the existing network. Thus the odds of a N432 may actually be higher.

Yes, its just me that's out of the loop when it comes to C5/C6 living. There obviously are a lot more people opening and rolling C5/C6 wormholes now than a year ago.

We now moved to another C5, and the three days we been there, we have seen a direct HS, a C5 and a C6 as well as two nullsecs. Our glorious leader (which also is a bit rusty in C5 WH mechanics) still live with the assumption that it will be "hard" to get caps into a C5 without a static C5/C6 Cool We will see...

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#12 - 2012-10-04 08:53:43 UTC
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#13 - 2012-10-04 09:53:03 UTC
Quote:
I know we'll get caught and die eventually


Correct attitude!


Quote:
but I'm looking to make PVE as safe as possible.


Wrong attitude! (in a certain way).


/Save the sleepers, kill the pod-pilots.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#14 - 2012-10-04 10:46:53 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Quote:
but I'm looking to make PVE as safe as possible.


Wrong attitude! (in a certain way).

/Save the sleepers, kill the pod-pilots.


This is way off topic, but it sort of touches on a idea I have had for a long time. Explain in what way it is the "wrong attitude" to not try and do PVE activities as safe as possible?

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-10-05 11:38:08 UTC
Ashimat wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
Quote:
but I'm looking to make PVE as safe as possible.


Wrong attitude! (in a certain way).

/Save the sleepers, kill the pod-pilots.


This is way off topic, but it sort of touches on a idea I have had for a long time. Explain in what way it is the "wrong attitude" to not try and do PVE activities as safe as possible?


That kind of attitude doesn't really fit wormholes, if you just wanted to be as safe as possible while carebearing, you might as well do it deep in sov null or in high sec. Wormholes is where you take a huge dump in someone's system by reinforcing their towers, follow up with farming their sites in hoeps of them manning up and trying to pay back in one way or another. At times you get a good fight out of that, and at times you get a good laugh when you get capital escalations dropped at you, followed by the capitals warping out because they're too scared to fight themselves. It's even more hilarious when your fleet survives anything the opponents can throw at you, or gank the opposing fleet entirely due to being in control of the situation.

Safety is bad, being in control of the situation by playing it smart, using good scouts and planning ahead on the case of trouble is what makes living in holes fun. The isk and all that is completely secondary, if even that.
Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2012-10-05 12:21:11 UTC
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Ashimat wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
Quote:
but I'm looking to make PVE as safe as possible.


Wrong attitude! (in a certain way).

/Save the sleepers, kill the pod-pilots.


This is way off topic, but it sort of touches on a idea I have had for a long time. Explain in what way it is the "wrong attitude" to not try and do PVE activities as safe as possible?


That kind of attitude doesn't really fit wormholes, if you just wanted to be as safe as possible while carebearing, you might as well do it deep in sov null or in high sec. Wormholes is where you take a huge dump in someone's system by reinforcing their towers, follow up with farming their sites in hoeps of them manning up and trying to pay back in one way or another. At times you get a good fight out of that, and at times you get a good laugh when you get capital escalations dropped at you, followed by the capitals warping out because they're too scared to fight themselves. It's even more hilarious when your fleet survives anything the opponents can throw at you, or gank the opposing fleet entirely due to being in control of the situation.

Safety is bad, being in control of the situation by playing it smart, using good scouts and planning ahead on the case of trouble is what makes living in holes fun. The isk and all that is completely secondary, if even that.



What a load of horsesh*t. Using scouts, playing it smart, planning ahead IS done in an effort to make the situation as safe as possible. You are just playing with semantics to make it sound cooler.

Doing those things in an effort to make your ISK making as safe and successful as possible does not go against the pro PVP attitiude of wormholers. We all need to make isk to fly those fancy ships to their death.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#17 - 2012-10-05 12:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashimat
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
That kind of attitude doesn't really fit wormholes, if you just wanted to be as safe as possible while carebearing, you might as well do it deep in sov null or in high sec. Wormholes is where you take a huge dump in someone's system by reinforcing their towers, follow up with farming their sites in hoeps of them manning up and trying to pay back in one way or another. At times you get a good fight out of that, and at times you get a good laugh when you get capital escalations dropped at you, followed by the capitals warping out because they're too scared to fight themselves. It's even more hilarious when your fleet survives anything the opponents can throw at you, or gank the opposing fleet entirely due to being in control of the situation.

Safety is bad, being in control of the situation by playing it smart, using good scouts and planning ahead on the case of trouble is what makes living in holes fun. The isk and all that is completely secondary, if even that.

If we had walls in our POS, I would frame that and put it up. I fully agree. I agree with Derath Ellecon too, I don't think you are saying different things.

But there is one interesting thing here;
Quote:
...reinforcing their towers, follow up with farming their sites in hoeps of them manning up and trying to pay back..

Are you suggesting we should consciously blurr the sacred and holy line of pvp/pve?

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-05 13:14:01 UTC
Ashimat wrote:
Are you suggesting we should consciously blurr the sacred and holy line of pvp/pve?


Not really, just that as an option it's often the most fun one to take. Nothing quite like brightening an otherwise boring day of rerolling holes in hopes of finding someone actually active, and when failing that trying to force something to happen by doing something like that. With a properly planned fleet that has a hic on standby, a scout that watches over the connections while probe picketing, you can easily get enough intel about incoming pvp fleets to prepare for it, whether it's by pinging for more logistics, fitting or requesting some tackle or to deciding that it's way too much to handle and that you should make an exit yourself before the other fleet can even begin to gather intelligence on what you're doing.

It's actually quite surprising how well an escalation fleet can fend off an attack, or even destroy the opposition entirely with well placed vigilant webs followed by a moros blapping the opposition one by one. Despite being outnumbered otherwise.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-10-05 13:19:35 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
What a load of horsesh*t. Using scouts, playing it smart, planning ahead IS done in an effort to make the situation as safe as possible. You are just playing with semantics to make it sound cooler.

Doing those things in an effort to make your ISK making as safe and successful as possible does not go against the pro PVP attitiude of wormholers. We all need to make isk to fly those fancy ships to their death.


Nope, there's a big difference in how the scouting is being done. For purely defensive scouting the scout is there to give you notice of someone closing in on you, in which case you simply close shop and leave. For what I described you carry on what you're doing in hopes of getting the other fleet to jump you, all the while having your on grid fleet drop some webs in favor of having more points for the upcoming battle. You can think of it as a hybrid of baiting for pvp and making isk with the pve portion. Extremely high risk with big rewards as well, just how it should be.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#20 - 2012-10-05 14:26:36 UTC
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Ashimat wrote:
Are you suggesting we should consciously blurr the sacred and holy line of pvp/pve?

It's actually quite surprising how well an escalation fleet can fend off an attack, or even destroy the opposition entirely with well placed vigilant webs followed by a moros blapping the opposition one by one. Despite being outnumbered otherwise.

Is that what happened here?

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

12Next page