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The Push for Cheaper T2 ships.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-09-30 04:37:50 UTC
One thing that I would love to see in the case of all t2 ships is the reduction in costs.

I understand them costing more than t1, however, I feel that the cost of them keeps them from being used in pvp as much as they could be.

Take Black ops bs's for instance.

Truth be told these are very rarely used on live server.

Hell, the only place I've ever seen one was the alliance tournament.

If the mineral requirements for them were reduced, and reductions made for pirate and faction ships as well, then we'd see a lot more flying around.

This would not only make for a more vibrant t2/faction/pirate market, but would also help to break a lot of fleet compositions that could be considered OP.

For instance, the current drake blobs could be broken if t2 ships were cheaper.

You don't want to make them insanely cheaper, but enough to make them more achievable and feel like less of a waist of isk.

Just food for thought.

I'm sure many people will come in a rage against this, but honestly, I really think seeing more faction/pirate/t2 ships in pvp combat would not only help to break the cycle, but would make fleet composition more versatile, and would make pvp combat much more interesting.

Now, rage away....
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#2 - 2012-09-30 04:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
I'm partially trained for Black Ops, (almost in one~if I want~anyway), and rather like them. You can bet I'll find a use for them, even at their current cost, but it won't be very likely that I'll be using them for Covert Cynos at that cost.

T2 in general is expensive, and I still say the one thing that would make that less of an issue, is changing the insurance payouts for them. Do that, and we'll see a lot more of them fielded by everyone.

edit: Cost is relevant to the market and the materials, and costs of production and research.
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Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-09-30 04:41:17 UTC
black ops ships aren't used because for the most party they suck; in the AT they are the same point value as a t1 BS so might as well use the t2.

when tech nerf comes t2 ships might lower in price.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-09-30 04:45:57 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
I'm partially trained for Black Ops, (almost in one~if I want~anyway), and rather like them. You can bet I'll find a use for them, even at their current cost, but it won't be very likely that I'll be using them for Covert Cynos at that cost.

T2 in general is expensive, and I still say the one thing that would make that less of an issue, is changing the insurance payouts for them. Do that, and we'll see a lot more of them fielded by everyone.

edit: Cost is relevant to the market and the materials, and costs of production and research.


I've always wanted to see like a half value payout for insurance on t2/faction/pirate.

This would definitely help their pvp viability as well.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#5 - 2012-09-30 04:55:17 UTC
The first question that comes to my mind is "How many should we see?".

Worms and Hyena's are perfectly useful ships, but their purpose and production costs are a substantial pressure on their presence. They've already achieved some kind of market balance and that's the biggest factor in anything in EVE. This serves to make these ships more special, more interesting to actually see in action.

T2 ships in general are in an awkward position. When you give 110%, people won't accept anything less anymore, so to be "good enough" often depends on a lot more than the average player can offer. Like any MMO, this can be a very expensive practice that leaves some people feeling inadequate.

It's just a matter of perspective and what stakes you're willing to play.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-09-30 06:15:53 UTC
Cost isn't the reason blops don't see a ton of use. They aren't designed to be direct combat vessels so they pretty much stick to throwing covert ops ships at cynos. And the occasional hot drop.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-09-30 06:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerrick Palivorn
Astroniomix wrote:
Cost isn't the reason blops don't see a ton of use. They aren't designed to be direct combat vessels so they pretty much stick to throwing covert ops ships at cynos. And the occasional hot drop.


This

Also since blops are removed from direct combat it is actually very rare occasion and usually a very stupid pilot that loses one.

As far as other T2 prices are concerned the current prices are fine, yes it sucks when you lose one... but isn't that the way eve is supposed to operate?

Ninja Edit: Yes I have lost a bridging BLOPs before, and yes I was being very stupid.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
AFKish
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-09-30 10:07:42 UTC
If cost was the only issue how come we see so many cynabals flying round in place of vagabonds that are a good 60m cheaper?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-30 10:12:16 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
The first question that comes to my mind is "How many should we see?".

Worms and Hyena's are perfectly useful ships, but their purpose and production costs are a substantial pressure on their presence..


Actually I'm pretty sure noone flys Hyenas because they're terrible-- they aren't particularly fast, can't fit any semblance of a tank, and have a giant signature radius, the combination of which makes them pretty terrible combat ships. There's not much point getting a fast web on someone if you explode before they even coast down to their webbed speed...
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-09-30 16:52:10 UTC
AFKish wrote:
If cost was the only issue how come we see so many cynabals flying round in place of vagabonds that are a good 60m cheaper?


Dunno.. never flown either.

But, there are many factors that could decide this. Tank, speed, dps, capabilities, etc. Etc.

60 mil isnt that big of a cost difference in eve especially if ur getting more bang for ur buck.

Now, with pirate/faction/t2 bs, this is where it truly stands out..

Why bring a widow when u can bring a much much cheaper scorpion and a cruiser cyno ship costing less than half the isk?
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#11 - 2012-09-30 18:29:16 UTC
I would like to see these ships reduced in price a bit as well, but thats partly because i remember when most ships were half the price they are now... i bought my first maelstrom for under 100 mil back in the day. my fleet issue phoon was less than 300. some of this is mineral prices, but as far as t2 is concerned they are expensive to make (thanks to the terrible invention system) and pirate and navy faction ships are simply rare, there are no BPOs for them iirc, just bpcs dropped in sites or as LP rewards for pirate mission runners

faction ships honestly arent too expensive for what you are getting, but t2 are, and i feel the invention system will need to be reworked to fix that.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#12 - 2012-09-30 18:57:34 UTC
They need to make flying them worth the bother first then maybe when the tech nerf comes out it might just do the trick but they will also need to make T3 cheaper too when they get nerfed.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-09-30 20:10:55 UTC
What if t2 ships only required lvl 4 of the parent skill instead of 5 like most t2 mods?
So that you could teir the ships better rather than everything at the end of a long training time.
That might help more since the greater demand would over time drop the price.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-09-30 20:16:40 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
What if t2 ships only required lvl 4 of the parent skill instead of 5 like most t2 mods?
So that you could teir the ships better rather than everything at the end of a long training time.
That might help more since the greater demand would over time drop the price.


I think the greater demand would actually increase the price.

However, reducing the requirements to build the ships would reduce the price.
Sigras
Conglomo
#15 - 2012-09-30 23:11:47 UTC
First of all, the reason the price is so high on T2 ships in the first place was the cartel on technetium which is all but gone now.

Second, the black ops ships' problem is not cost, its the fact that the ship has basically no use other than a mobile bridge for covert ops ships, and theyre not even all that great at that.

Lastly, which T2 ships were you thinking would be the counter to the drake blob? HACs? HICs? Recons? Command Ships? all of those basically get eaten alive by drakes