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Oruze and Osobnyk
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Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#61 - 2012-09-29 08:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Faulx
Polish: "oręż osoba nak" = "however individual weapons" or "however personal weapons"... no clue if it makes grammatical sense in Polish. I tried to go back to the Greek, "πρόσωπον" which can mean "person" or "face", but it's structure is so far from Osobnyk that it seems an unlikely match. The Latin is no better with "personam" and "faciem". The C̶y̶r̶i̶l̶l̶i̶c Slavic languages are consistently the better matches.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#62 - 2012-09-29 13:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osoba

It may not make sense at first.


Au contrare, it makes perfect sense, and touche...Blink

Remember, I said Nyak is mother in Indonesian..

It carries a profound relation to the Dominican Order, St. Thomas Aquinas, the Cathedral of Saint Januarius, Averroism, Thomism, Contra Errores Graecorum, and the Catena Aurea.. Which bear directly on the concepts of a Unified Catholic Church and Conformism.. I always thought Sani Sabik was a corruption of Sanguine Sabbath, but, I am now leaning more toward Santa Sabina.. And it also bears on my question as to whether the Jovians have a soul or not..Twisted

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#63 - 2012-09-29 15:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
A further question, if, as I surmise, the Jovians are Drones living in a virtual world created for them, what then, are Rogue Drones..? Who also have a problem communicating with baseline humans...

Quote:
Although made of biological materials and physically all but indistinguishable from humans, they are considered to be pieces of machinery.


Gonna be kinda hard to distinguish who is a "drone" and who is a "true" human..Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#64 - 2012-09-29 15:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Borascus wrote:

Osobn translates into English from Polish to - Separate



Anoikis means "programmed cell death" in the common consensus - but oikos in greek means household/family, as seen here. The term Anoikis comes from the Chronicle and backstory.




Not to be too pedantic on something like this, but the deviation of terminology via slang and region usually avoids convergence on another already existent term, the deviation of Osobn from Osoba is not a feasible tangent considering Osobn means separate; which the enclaves emphasize and the distanced and annexed state of Anoikis represents.


As to the Jovian Soul in a sleeper context, as part of a 2-sided debate ofc, it could be construed as being the supreme doctrine of the governing character traits prevalent in the majority of specimens that joined the construct.

It has a relationship with the desire to obtain the corpse of Formator Immensea in the chronicle The Forsaken Ruins (already presented). As the Formator has been suggested as part of a scheme to conclude with the Seyllin Incident. -- The Formator Immensea in this instance represented a pinnacle of community achievement, much like the social version of the Seven Wonders of the World

It has a strong allusion to the naming convention applied to "The Other" as it is singular and a known variable. Yin / Yang and symbiosis within character traits.

Although it adds a layer of commonality to the Admiral Ouria events in YC105 (a very important year on the EVE Insider portal) here
Admiral Ouria Event Synopsis wrote:


In August the universe was held in rapt attention as news filtered out that a Jovian admiral named Ouria had gone rogue after giving away a high-technology item to a non-Jovian, thus violating the non-interference law imposed by the Jovian directorate upon all its subjects. Ouria’s defection was discovered when word spread of a secret meeting taking place somewhere in the Stain region of space between a group of Jovians and an unknown party. During this meeting, an Amarr pilot who had been determined to investigate the proceedings was shot down by Jovian ships, sparking a diplomatic incident between the two empires. Following this, the Jovians released the information that Admiral Ouria had been stricken with the deadly psychological disorder known as the Jovian Disease and declared him an exile from the Jove Empire, disavowing responsibility and denouncing his actions. CONCORD went one step further, placing a 100 million ISK bounty on his head.

Reports continued to resurface sporadically from the Stain region, where Ouria’s renegade band was rumored to be scouting around for territories to set up operations in. Their attempts were met with sustained resistance from the corporations of the Stain Alliance and after one particularly bloody and decisive battle, Ouria managed to escape into hiding. A few days later, information came to light that Ouria had developed ties with the infamous Minmatar rebel faction Oracle and rumors circled that he was in talks with them about an alliance. After managing to intercept communications between Ouria and one of his brothers, CONCORD was able to issue a general warning for the sectors of Stain space where the Admiral was believed to be located. Following this narrowing of the field, a massive fleet of Stain Alliance ships tracked down and engaged Ouria and his contingent of Oracle soldiers, defeating the Jovian and his Minmatar cohorts after a long and bloody struggle.


Which ofc, happened in the hotspot of all mad tyrants, the South of the Map near Curse, and with the event happening right in the middle of Sansha Kuvakei's home constellation it would only take one brain scan of Kuvakei to be stored somewhere in Jove space and transported by Admiral Ouria for use in Nation's Information Network "with the right traits as a skillbook" (to use a metaphorical comparison)

Sansha being Deteis is also a common ground with the Jove; with their Tube Children, Scientists and Merchandisers that seek so much to obtain personal mastery of every aspect of a process.

Roga Dracor wrote:
A further question, if, as I surmise, the Jovians are Drones living in a virtual world created for them, what then, are Rogue Drones..? Who also have a problem communicating with baseline humans...


I took that to mean they had deviated from their role as servants and acted as their own decision-enacting Legal Person although there may be more to it, such as an attempt to house fragments of a psyche in a machine.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#65 - 2012-09-29 15:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Roga Dracor wrote:
what then, are Rogue Drones..?


The first generation rogue drones of human construction are all named after demons and devils.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belphegor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malphas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon

I assume the use of the word rogue is due to it's Gallente (French) origin.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#66 - 2012-09-29 15:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Roga Dracor wrote:
I always thought Sani Sabik was a corruption of Sanguine Sabbath,


What do you specifically mean by Sanguine Sabbath ?

I think it is a reference to Blood Libel

Bhaalgorn

in Hebrew Ba'al mean lord, Gorn/Goren is a surname and Goren is also a settlement in the Levant.
in Christianity Baal is a demon.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#67 - 2012-09-29 17:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Very nice, I missed that one.. So, who again might the wrongly villified, by the "True" Amarr, Takmahl be?Blink

TOKMala

BloodRituals.. Sanguine relates to blood in humourism, sabbath an observance of ritual worship..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#68 - 2012-09-29 17:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Roga Dracor wrote:
Very nice, I missed that one.. So, who again might the wrongly villified, by the "True" Amarr, Takmahl be?Blink


Yes, I think the "Touched by Evil" semantic of Takmahl is the ancient Amarr pejorative name.
Borascus
#69 - 2012-09-29 17:41:31 UTC
Request for retcon: The Jovian language is a very strange tongue. speech consists entirely of vowels and fluctuates rapidly in frequency. Jove

ShockedShockedRoll
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#70 - 2012-09-29 17:42:10 UTC
"A very old post of mine" wrote:

Something that's never made much sense to me.

The timelines for each of the current powers record their arrival in New Eden and in most cases confirm each other. The cataclysm of the Eve Gate collapse apparent struck them down to a subsistence existence, that required 8000 years to recover. Those 8000 years was similar for all and suggests a regression to a stone age technology level.

Since the Ancient civilisations (Sleepers, Talocan et.al) apparently survived or emerged quickly from the cataclysm we should be able to surmise they where either more powerful or advanced, so as not to suffer such a cataclysmic set back or had their recovery aided.

However their arrival in New Eden goes unrecorded, why?
Borascus
#71 - 2012-09-29 18:14:57 UTC
The post of yours reminds me that the Yan Jung Nation also held a monopoly on transportation (likely force field acceleration / static gate technology) yet they have such a staggeringly under-represented history in New Eden.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#72 - 2012-09-29 18:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
In war, history is generally written by the victor.. What terms a victory is, of course, subjective.. As is the "truth" they wish to relate to posterity.. Perhaps someone wanted the fact that many of the "humans" that colonised New Eden are not entirely what we previously assumed them to be..

As one of my old questions was why the Amarr call their crusade a "REclaiming".. I have never been satisfied with the blanket explaination.. To claim something implies rights, and entitlement to what is being claimed. Reclaiming implies those entitlements were once established..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#73 - 2012-09-29 20:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
When you explained the Conformist adjective, you gave an insight:

In English History there was a time when a person could be imprisoned for missing Church on a Sunday. The term used for these individuals was Recusant, missing Church on a Sunday was an act of nonconformity with an imposed punishment after a guilty verdict. Guy Fawkes and the other Gunpowder plot members were mainly recusants.

Of note, Conformists as an Enclave would normally be the strict doctrine-adherent variety, unless it is used as a religious conscript of some sort in this context, such as attending Church on a Sunday merely to avoid prosecution. The reclamation could be the conscription of all persons to the Amarrian Religion in its current form, under the auspice of the Amarrian Religion's previous form being Unified, with conformists, occasional non-conformists/dissenters and other subsets.

I've been of the persuasion that the conformists were those who sabotaged the EVE Gate using the "Ancient Terran Technology" incorporated in Jamyl's Superweapon to destabilise the EVE wormhole. Like the Promised Land Wormhole the flux caused by such a weapon would prevent any crossing.

Also, EVE is taken from the inscription at the top of the EVE Gate and New Eden takes its name from the birthplace of mankind, Eve and Adam being the mother and father, as described in the Book of Genesis. However, the writing on the EVE Gate was "largely undecipherable" like the Jovian Language and Oruze Osobnyk.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#74 - 2012-09-29 20:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Kinda ties into my above mention of the Lesser Strain Hive Mother, Lesser and Hive in this case are both adjectives, so the lesser relates to strain and hive to mother, making the strain lesser, not the mother. They belong to the lesser strain, as in Jovian(drone) strain, not a lesser hive mother..

I, too, have wondered if there were not more than the simple EVE name to the "gate"..

It does kinda look like a huge "infested bunker" turned on it's side, or a particle accelerator more than a gate..

On a seperate note, if the Oruze Construct represents an Oruze Osobnyk under construction, it could imply the Sleepers are awake and gearing up for war..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#75 - 2012-09-29 20:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Roga Dracor wrote:
Kinda ties into my above mention of the Lesser Strain Hive Mother, Lesser and Hive in this case are both adjectives, so the lesser relates to strain and hive to mother, making the strain lesser, not the mother. They belong to the lesser strain, as in Jovian strain, not a lesser mother..


Classy! As though Lesser Strain would be excluded from the Inner Assembly (to draw a comparison)

One step closer to purity....


Roga Dracor wrote:
On a seperate note, if the Oruze Construct represents an Oruze Osobnyk under construction, it could imply the Sleepers are awake and gearing up for war..


I was under the impression the Sleeper's were adapted detrimentally, i.e. limitations were imposed, like new laws that tighten interpretation, and expected a socially divisive act to be the reason, 'The Construct' being the Utopian and "Osobnyk" to be the Separated, in so far as yk being added in much the same way nik is applied to words. A clear example is Beatnik.


In this truest sense it opens also Infomorph Niki's interpretation that Osoba means person and therefore Osoba-nyk would be "persons of the light" (ghosts in the machine / people in the light). Although I'll be sticking with separated until proof. I said Bastion of the Light for the meaning earlier in the thread, but its probably limited in its scope compared to Oruze Osobnyk. The discussion brings me back round to speculate Bastion of the Light - Construct and Bastion of the Light - Separate like Persona Non-Grata based on the premise that "only those gifted enough to be considered Savants.."

My main question outstanding (other than answers to replace my guesses) is how the Emergent Technology in Sleeper drones was inhibited to prevent emergent dominance. It would stand to reason that a Gestalt Infomorph Society would benefit from limitless adaptivity as any random variable countered by one drone would immunise the whole group. As seen the Sleeper Drones with "greatly advanced technology" simply cannot defeat a well organised Pod-piloted fleet.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#76 - 2012-09-29 20:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Patrician (ancient Rome) were bestowed special status as Roman citizens, they were essential the aristoracy the political class; compared with the Plebians (Plebs), the rank and file roman citizens denied access to the senate and even the law and below them the slaves. However the Plebs were never actually powerless, they would leave Rome in a Secessio (Secession) which was essentially a general strike.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#77 - 2012-09-29 20:46:23 UTC
Who, originally, if I recall properly, were afforded such position due to their superior intelligence and superior education..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#78 - 2012-09-29 21:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
I've had to edit my post to incorporate my response to Roga Dracor's 20:13 post and found more posts post-Editing!

Could this be a legacy from the absorption of the Talocan?
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#79 - 2012-09-29 21:15:58 UTC
Borascus wrote:

Osobn translates into English from Polish to - Separate
...
Not to be too pedantic on something like this, but the deviation of terminology via slang and region usually avoids convergence on another already existent term, the deviation of Osobn from Osoba is not a feasible tangent considering Osobn means separate; which the enclaves emphasize and the distanced and annexed state of Anoikis represents.

That's not too big a leap actually, it seems to occur in Polish and definitely occurs in English. From "Person" to "Individual" to "Separate"... it's a very easy transition of meaning (individuals are separate). If you'll recall "Osoba" translated two ways... "person" or "individual"... "osobn" then as "separate" is not too surprising.

Interesting note: "Cena osobn." means "Price basis" and "jed osobn." means "one by one.", so it seems "separately" or "individual" can be used in phrase to indicate enumeration or grouping of objects. This change in meaning seems to happen at the end of sentences, or maybe phrases... (would be nice to have a native speaker to help us understand this )
Ugh

"osobności" means "alone" or "private"

"oręże osobny ści" means "weapons of separate quality" (I think my grammar is a little clunky here)

Wow, here's an interesting one:
"oręże osobność" means "weapons of individuality"... that could have some pretty interesting consequences from an infomorphic perspective
Borascus
#80 - 2012-09-29 21:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Way back when I considered writing an article for AJ on the "Empire Space War" a ficitional topic I was going to hypothesise caused the RADAR and MAGNETOMETRIC sites in Empire Space - with their uniform station debris cloven asteroids and ripped super-structures. *** I hoped someone would have made an article on it, apologies if you are writing it up atm ***

Based on the show info within these sites:

"Debris litters this small pocket of space; torn sheets of hardened metal and twisted cables snake up through larger hulls and structures that all speak a story of violence and deterioration. A salvaging module will be required to sift amongst the garbage and find items of value. "

If the Talocan wanted to strike a blow at the heart of the Sleeper Supremacy, they would follow normal practices: Infiltration, Confidence, Sabotage if their technology was below the required standard for an all out offensive.