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Courier contracts, what's the going rate?
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2012-09-26 15:26:11 UTC
I created a bunch of Freighter-sized courer contracts about 15 hours ago. I took special care to size the volumes such that any Freighter can take one of the "basic" ones and most Freighters will also be able to simultaneously take one of my "extra" contracts for extra income.

It's from connected high-sec to connected high-sec, a lot of jumps, but very AFK-friendly, and with a collateral equal to 115% or 130% of the value of the goods, to protect me against theft. So a little over 200M ISK collateral for the "basic" unit and around 40M for the "extra" contract.

How come no one has bitten?

What's the expected rate per jump, for a Freighter-sized cargo volume?
Reticle
Sight Picture
#2 - 2012-09-26 15:46:50 UTC
The industry standard: http://red-frog.org/jumps.php

If you haven't been keeping up with the specifics, RF hires pilots constantly (as soon as they have packages that go over 24hrs, they hire more people), which means there are fewer people to take your stuff these days.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-09-26 15:47:13 UTC
once i've tried to start hauling business.... Stopped after browsing available contracts: 80% is scam which leads into low-sec, 15% has too little payment and too big collateral.

So i guess Red Frog/Black Frog exist for the reason =)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
JohnathanGalt
Northern Sky Industries
#4 - 2012-09-26 15:55:45 UTC
I would also recommend Push Industries, they have move many loads for me reliably and with delivery times that are quite amazing.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41058
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2012-09-26 21:00:57 UTC
I'm much more interested in cheap than in fast, but I'll take a look at those links.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#6 - 2012-09-26 21:10:33 UTC
What's the maximum size for a Courier Contract? I read somewhere that it's 800k m3, but some other texts suggest that more than 800k m3 is possible. What's the deal?

Also, what does it actually look like, if somebody takes my Courier Contract? And then later delivers? Where does my stuff apppear, and how and when and where am I notified?



And what is a reasonable rate? Red Frog charges 1M base fee + 450k ISK per jump, and that's way too expensive for my needs. I need a lot of cargoes moved through high-sec 14-17 jumps, but it doesn't have to be fast. I'm unwilling to pay for fast.

I'm thinking something along the lines of 5M ISK total for those 14-17 jumps, for 860k m3 cargo. Red Frog would charge 6.85M for 14 jumps and 8.65M for 17 jumps, but presumably they do it fast, which I'm unwilling to pay for. I don't have that kind of profit margin. I need a cheap slowboat captain to haul my stuff.
Nanatoa
#7 - 2012-09-26 21:31:59 UTC
I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contract hasn't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for a cheap ass hauler to come along.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#8 - 2012-09-26 21:34:48 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contract hasn't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for a cheap ass hauler to come along.


I've got multiple contracts up already. I'm puzzled that none of them have been taken.
Nanatoa
#9 - 2012-09-26 21:47:16 UTC
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll rephrase my comment:

I do find it a bit strange that you're unwilling to pay for fast, but wonder why your contracts haven't been taken in just 15 hours. If you're not in a rush, give it a couple of days for one or more cheap ass haulers to come along.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2012-09-26 22:58:08 UTC
If the starting point isn't a hub, most freighter pilots aren't going to grab a full load off the beaten path. You might get some hits on smaller loads they could pick up on their way between hubs though. Otherwise if they have to go out of their way, and you're being a cheap ass, it'll just sit there. If you were flying a 1.6B ship, and have to spend 30 minutes flying from A to B, would you want to get paid 5M for your time? Not even mentioning that you have to cover the cost of the goods for the honor of hauling it for someone else, taking all the risks yourself.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
LuckyQuarter
Unlimited Acquisitions Ltd
#11 - 2012-09-27 00:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: LuckyQuarter
As someone who has done a lot of hauling with public contracts and an obelisk freighter (937.5K m3), I'd have to say that what I look for in a contract is:
a) Minimum payout of 2M isk (lower sized contracts get filtered out)
b) Low collaterals, I'll go up to 1B - but I'd much rather have several smaller collateral contracts than 1 big one
c) Delivery deadlines 3 days from pickup, I'll pickup 1 day ones and usually deliver within 1-2hrs of pickup, but there is always a possibility I'll have to disconnect for real life and don't want the pressure of meeting a short deadline in the back of my mind.
d) If you want me to pick up the contract right away and expedite it, I'll usually expect 600K-1M isk/jump, if you are willing to wait - 400-500isk/jump will usually get me to take it, if the average is 200-400K isk/jump - I'll take it only if its on a path I'm already going, under 200K isk/jump - I'm almost certain to pass on it even if I'm going from/to the same station (similar to manufacturer not selling items on market if avg price gets too low).
e) If the route goes through a known gank point, I'm going to be less likely to take it.
f) smaller cargos, I hate taking full loads....for full loads, I'm really expecting the per jump payout to be high.
Pipa Porto
#12 - 2012-09-27 02:01:03 UTC
Salpad wrote:
What's the maximum size for a Courier Contract? I read somewhere that it's 800k m3, but some other texts suggest that more than 800k m3 is possible. What's the deal?


~950k m3 or whatever the Cargo hold of a Freighter 5 Charon is.

Quote:
Also, what does it actually look like, if somebody takes my Courier Contract? And then later delivers? Where does my stuff apppear, and how and when and where am I notified?


Your contract window will blink and say a contract needs attention. Your stuff appears in your hangar at the destination system.

Quote:
And what is a reasonable rate? Red Frog charges 1M base fee + 450k ISK per jump, and that's way too expensive for my needs. I need a lot of cargoes moved through high-sec 14-17 jumps, but it doesn't have to be fast. I'm unwilling to pay for fast.

I'm thinking something along the lines of 5M ISK total for those 14-17 jumps, for 860k m3 cargo. Red Frog would charge 6.85M for 14 jumps and 8.65M for 17 jumps, but presumably they do it fast, which I'm unwilling to pay for. I don't have that kind of profit margin. I need a cheap slowboat captain to haul my stuff.


Put up public contracts and hope for the best then. If nobody bites, you're not paying enough.

The trick to getting really cheap contracts accepted is to run small packages that can be accepted on top of other cargo and that go on routes that people are already taking.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Red zeon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-09-27 02:18:52 UTC
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#14 - 2012-09-27 12:01:00 UTC
Red zeon wrote:
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho


I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.
Red zeon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-27 12:55:09 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Red zeon wrote:
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho


I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.


i have a jump freighter char+jf and a out of corp freighter char. yeah... me to :P
Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2012-09-27 13:08:23 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Red zeon wrote:
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho


I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.


In the time you took to make the contracts, create this thread, and reply to it, you prolly could have loaded your freighter, hit autopilot and have had the stuff there. Yea that is pretty pathetically lazy.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#17 - 2012-09-27 13:18:52 UTC
400k per jump too expensive, clearly you've never had the pain of trying to jump freighters through busy start gates. 30 seconds till warp, nope I got bumped by that douche trying to warp in an orca.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#18 - 2012-09-27 13:46:05 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Red zeon wrote:
holy crap thats cheap, last i put up one from jita to 16jumps away all highsec, i put up 100m reward, didnt take that long tho


I can move my stuff myself. I have my own Freighter, and skill level 5. I'm just lazy.


In the time you took to make the contracts, create this thread, and reply to it, you prolly could have loaded your freighter, hit autopilot and have had the stuff there. Yea that is pretty pathetically lazy.


One load of stuff, yes, but I probably have 10-15 loads per week, that I need to move. That's 25x15.5 = 387.5 jumps per week. Even on Autopilot that's slow.
Taji Kann
Bright Exports Ltd
#19 - 2012-09-27 14:20:23 UTC
Salpad wrote:

How come no one has bitten?

What's the expected rate per jump, for a Freighter-sized cargo volume?


I'll bite on this thread since from time to time myself and my alts have too little (value or volume-wise) to
engage ref frog or other organised services so pubbie contract it is then.

I tend to figure 50k per jump for industrial and 100k per jump for freighter type loads is minimum,
and *at least* 1M total for more than 8 jumps or so.

For some reason the 7 digits seem to be sought after more than not and you'll notice you can't have fractional
millions in contract search... I figure whoever searches puts "1" in there to screen the low-end crap out.

I set 3 days expiry and rarely it fails. Might take a day or 2 to get noticed by enterprising independent courier
.. and of course if you're willing to wait longer...

I think last one was Agil to Amarr, 1M, a few hundred m3, less than 200M collat, finished yesterday or so.
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
#20 - 2012-09-27 21:03:18 UTC
I take contracts and mostly run them in a blockade runner. I ignore anything below 3 million reward unless I see multiple smaller contracts going to the same destination. I do not rely on contracts for income but I grab them when I see good ones. If you want it moved fast - give it a decent reward.

I laugh when I see either:

a) Someone that wants a billion down for a million reward - pay up for the risk!
b) Someone that wants a million hops for 900K
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