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Oruze and Osobnyk

Author
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#21 - 2012-09-25 13:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Romvex wrote:

do keep in mind that these wild claims about a certain race being in new eden before the gate was found or being native to anoikis would make said races, in essence, aliens...


No such claim is made on my part.. P Their Cosmos clearly states they were a human civilization..

The Jovian story, in some ways, shows some clear parallels to Pinocchio and the Pinocchio Paradox.

Given that I want to show a complete overview of my research, I should add another line of reasoning that I dismissed almost immediately, but, since Wyke is bringing up ethnicity and music, I suppose it could be relevent, given the media and entertainment allusions at the Mirror.. Another possible interpretation of Osobnyk..Lol

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#22 - 2012-09-25 21:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Quote:
The Conformists, a group within the United Church of the Lord, settles on Soekheviti, a planet within the Sol system.(1)


The word Soekheviti could be Sukhavati which is a Sanskit word. Sukra is the Sanskit word for Venus. In Sanskit Vita means without or free-from.

There is no indication that Conformists were the first or only settlers, I suggest this is name given by it original inhabitants. The same inhabitants that later exile the Conformists.

Quote:
do keep in mind that these wild claims about a certain race being in new eden before the gate was found or being native to anoikis would make said races, in essence, aliens...


No, just the Daughters of Eve

Some interest stuff on the subject of casts I, reminded of the Brave New World. Alphas, Betas, Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons remind anybody else of haplotypes.

I also think we should look again at Osobnyk from a different angle and not try to find a direct translation.

Dropbear wrote:
I suggest you guys think of the name like you would think of say...denim. The "Osobynak" is just a nod to the sorts of etymological quirks, like that, which exist all around us in the real world.

What the hell does that mean? Well, there was this city in Southern France called Nimes, and it was renowned for its textiles. There was one in particular, that became so popular it is still used today (i.e. jeans!). Its full name was "Serge de Nimes" - Serge being taken from the Greek "Serikos", meaning "Silken", and "de" in french meaning "of" or "from" ("The Silk from Nimes"). That name was eventually shortened to "de Nimes" and over time, became the "denim" you and I know.

If languages are just an extension of the living organisms that construct them, then it makes sense that words evolve in this way, along with their "hosts". What it means in this instance though...that's an interesting question.


I take Dropbears hints to mean that Osobnyak is...
1) A contraction, perhaps of several words into one.
2) New Semantics bear little relation to the original
3) Phonetic

e.g.
O so ban yak
O Sob any a k
Os ob any ak
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#23 - 2012-09-25 23:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Hmmm.... Contradiction alert, the timeline here names it the Unified Catholic Church, which is the older etymology.. What gives?

I do agree about deciphering Osobnyk.. I doubt a direct translation or transliteration is the answer.. @Romvex - One thing I would ask about the alien issue, is how far are you willing to extend the definition of humanity?Twisted

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-09-26 08:33:17 UTC
You know, assuming the source of the name Oruze Osobnyk is the same as the source for Anoikis (not saying it is, but it's possible), I'd suggest looking into potential Greek transliterations.

You never know, you might find something interesting.

Like, for instance, Oruze becomes oruza. Oruza, while being "rice" in greek, is also the name of a genus of moth.

Look up the meaning and symbolism of the moth in Hindu culture. You might come across the following phrase:

"If the fire of knowledge has destroyed everything, how does the body of the Sage continue?"

Not that it necessarily means anything... Blink
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#25 - 2012-09-26 11:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Very nice! Given the double and triple meanings I have found all over the place, it well could be relevent..Big smile

Oruze as it is in Greek is "rouge", red...

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#26 - 2012-09-26 12:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Wyke Mossari wrote:

Quote:

The Conformists, a group within the United Church of the Lord, settles on Soekheviti, a planet within the Sol system.(1)


The word Soekheviti could be Sukhavati which is a Sanskit word. Sukra is the Sanskit word for Venus. In Sanskit Vita means without or free-from.


Soek is Afrikaans for search.

Soekhavati (Note a not e) is a surname and leads to The children Soekhavati is a novel by Jostein Gaarder

A couple of Jostein Gaarder other titles look interesting but too little detail to confirm, except perhaps Sophie's World

Could we have been on the wrong track all along?
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#27 - 2012-09-26 13:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Synchronicity.. Conceptually, it is all relevent.. Blink

The soul as a butterfly;

Quote:
The Taoist philosopher, Zhuangzi, once had a dream about being a butterfly that flew without care about humanity; however; when he awoke and realized that it was just a dream, he thought to himself, "Was I before a man who dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I now a butterfly who dreams about being a man?"


vitae - of life, or as Lianda says, of living..

While soek is a word that means more than simply search, it can also mean want.. Desire...Blink

Do Jovians have an eternal soul?

Sukha - Havitta

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Borascus
#28 - 2012-09-26 14:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
I doubt that these remarks are too far from the reality within EVE. Simply due to the huge motivations behind the exodus from New Eden to Anoikis all those years ago.

The Present Pieces chronicle quoted in the Yan Jung thread here states that Titan sized components were manufactured 14k years ago.

To put that in context, yes its shortly after the closure of the EVE gate, during the shrouded years. But also of note is that the current Jove Empire is quoted as being formed around 500 years ago. However, the Jovian Motherships were manufactured shortly after the rise of the current third empire.

This would make the Titan sized ship components listed in Present Pieces older than the current Jovian Empire, and more than likely that the components were manufactured in the First Empire.

Also, a tidbit found on wikipedia lists Shapur and Jovian in the same paragraph here and Ardi is extremely relevant to Shapur used as a fully fleshed out Amarrian Family Line
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#29 - 2012-09-26 14:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
It also states that the first piece was acquired in Anoikis, which raises some questions about wormhole mass stability.. But, we have a likely candidate for what was carrying the polestars around..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Borascus
#30 - 2012-09-26 15:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
As well as an anomalous wormhole size in the EVE Gate, and some sizable Black Holes already present in the New Eden cluster.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#31 - 2012-09-26 16:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Acronyms, anyone come up with a relevent one for OSOBNYK

Orbital Solar Observatory is the best I've seen for the first half... -nyk would work on a wild level if the structure were an entity in it's own right..P

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#32 - 2012-09-26 16:51:15 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
Acronyms, anyone come up with a relevent one for OSOBNYK


Acronyms OSOBNYK

Anagrams for OSOBNYK

Nothing stands out for either.
Borascus
#33 - 2012-09-26 18:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
The difficulty with this is Dropbear's mention of "de Nimes", and his statement that its not as easy as translating it.


Oruze translates into English from Turkish to - We Hope That
Osobn translates into English from Polish to - Separate

However;
Oso in Creole means house, in Basque it means whole/all (wiktionary)

Anoikis means "programmed cell death" in the common consensus - but oikos in greek means household/family, as seen here. The term Anoikis comes from the Chronicle and backstory.

In the Anoikis Chronicle the section from which the area takes its name is:

Quote:
I cannot say. Their interests are unpredictable, but they are divided and divisive. There will always be ones who question what most do not, but I believe that overall, they will share the same goals as the empires. They will take what they can understand and reintegrate. We may see another rise in their power and autonomy as a result. We should expect them to monopolize on this new opportunity as well. Given the inherent dangers of exploring Anoikis, they are positioned favorably to do so. In terms of raw resource gathering capabilities, conventional empire fleets will not be economically competitive. We will struggle to maintain a presence eventually.


The chapter that the above quote is in comes about with no identities and the following:

Quote:
I propose we call for a private summit of national leaders, to discuss an exchange of information and come to an agreement about the best use for select recovered parts. We could use the Inner Assembly to arrange for the meetings quite easily under the guise of an understandable concern for these events, which have touched our worlds too, as we will inform them.
The Inner Assembly of CONCORD? Accessible only by Empire heads not corporate ambassadors I'd guess

Quote:
That will turn the empires toward research.
Would this be other Empires?

Quote:
The capsuleers. They will settle. They will understand the network eventually, and they will command it.
Presumably the wormhole network

and

Quote:
"You are correct. There was activity on the line. She was at one of the mirrors."
Thats a strong understanding in such a short time.

In this context the term Anoikis arises from the descriptive process: which is induced by anchorage-dependent cells detaching from the surrounding extracellular matrix (ECM).

the most meaningful part for me is: "When cells are detached from the ECM, i.e. there is a loss of normal cell–matrix interactions, they may undergo Anoikis"

It is not termed: Apoptosis

"The Mirror" was understandable on both sides of the expanse separating Anoikis and Empire Space.
"Oruze" and "Osobnyk" likely came about whilst separated from Empire Space.

Out of the indexed wormhole features what kind of prevalence does this linguistic style have?

Argos Sentry
Sirius Sentry
Assembly Hall
Data Field
Information Pen
Evacuation Center
Coronation Platform (?)
Gateway
Bastion
Citadel
Stronghold
Barracks(?)
Command Post
Integrated Terminus
Oruze Osobnyk - The only insight into the unique architecture is the word 'Oruze Osobnyk' which continually resurfaces throughout the garbled, largely indecipherable transmissions that emanate from within.
Ambush Point
Camp
Checkpoint
Hangar
Phase Catalyst Node - Almost regal in appearance, the compound features various thermoelectric converters connected to one another in a strange formation, running the energy they produce through concentric arches that ascend like the stairs to a throne
Data Sanctuary
Information Sanctum
Solar Cell
Strange Energy Readings - Wavelength readouts suggest a large cache of a powerful isotope was once housed here, but no solid traces remain. The level of radiant antimatter can only be explained by an immense--and recent--matter displacement.
The Line - Appears to have been a point of transit for an object of high mass, or its a contrail.
The Mirror
The Oruze Construct
The Ruins of Enclave Cohort 27

All seen here

In Summary: Oruze and Osobnyk are that disparate from the normal language used in the description of the structures that the language to which they relate is likely in the language used by the Sleepers. As played out by Viola and Grious in Theodicy :
"Hey, Grious," Viola called. The four Jovians stopped and turned. "What does ‘Enheduanni’ mean?"

The Jovian thought for a moment. "There is no translation in your language."

Although, he was pretty close to reaching an understanding with The 'Order' and Enheduanni seemed to roll off his tongue quite quickly.

I can't wait til Roga and Wyke work it out :)
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#34 - 2012-09-26 18:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
EnHeduAnni

One of the acronyms for the end of osobnyk is Year King

Hmm.. Ties into Nowruz New Years celebrations in Heaven and the crowning of the new solar deity..

Given the knowledge the Jove supposedly possess, they may be able to acces vague terms and symbology that most would have to spend months researching.. Being subconscious to them, explaination to a "simpler" organic being may be difficult..

Lately, everything keeps bringing me back to the notions explored in Aeon Flux..

Maybe confirmation bias, need to step back, relax, and drink a beer.. Twisted Heaven looks like a mirror to Earth.. Maybe watch some Soooooooouuuuul Train!Lol

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-09-26 19:54:19 UTC
Fascinating.

Borascus, you're missing two possible sources of translation: Argos and Sirius.

Both have greek origins.

Anoikis, a word with greek origins. Google translate (transliterating the word) this becomes ανοικής; open. A google search then reveals ανήκω; appertain, belong, pertain, pertain to, reside in. Not accurate science, of course. Taking a slightly different route, Oikos becomes οίκος; house. An- would be the negation of it; without a house. Traveling Anoikis without a house would seem the appropriate translation.

Further, oikos was the basic unit of family in greek culture. Not just a house, then. Without family. Alone. Capsuleers can travel in w-space and make it back with limited resources; without a family, a home.

Put this into the context of Homer's Odyssey. A story about a mariner lost at sea, trying to find his way home. A simple analogy for traveling a network of wormholes without a "compass", with only the stars to guide him.

Now, Oruze; how would Oruza, a type of moth, fit with this?

Look at what's in the Oruze Enclave. Solar engineering (stars, or more accurately, sun). Residential (or, where someone would live)

What do moths do? What's their one weakness? More importantly:

Quote:
1.0 Solar Engineering
1.1 Photoelectrical Engineering
1.2 Thermovoltaics
1.3 Residential
1.4 Residential


Look at those last two entries. How many planets like Seyllin are there in Sleeper space? Blink
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-09-26 20:01:55 UTC
Further, a certain flower once fascinated Darwin. A long flower, almost impossible for bugs to get to in order to pollinate. He theorized there was a moth that evolved a long enough tongue to reach the nectar inside, therefore allowing the flower to propagate.

His theory was proven years later.

In the context of Empyrean Age and Templar One, as well as the Mirror, there is one reference to something rare, and a type of "creature" evolved to get it; Isogen 5, and rogue drones respectively.

There is in fact, a drone called a 'Moth Apis'.

Twisted
Borascus
#37 - 2012-09-26 20:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
The more information the better, but in relation to the below:

Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara wrote:

Anoikis, a word with greek origins. Google translate (transliterating the word) this becomes ανοικής; open. A google search then reveals ανήκω; appertain, belong, pertain, pertain to, reside in.


I'd already been re-directed to the wiktionary here and it seemed like a red herring.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#38 - 2012-09-26 20:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Ever noticed anything about the appearance of these ?

Oruze Construct

Oruze Osobnyk

The Oruze Osobnyk looks like a more complete version than Oruze Construct. So could that mean Construction or Construct, or perhaps more duality.

These seem to be different, I've suspected they might be Von Neumann Machines (self replicating structures)

I wonder if anybody has every guarded one of these perhaps they regenerate or grow.

Then what happens?

I seem to recall there was a big hint dropped by one of the devs at one point that we (all players) had missed something really important, an ingame mechanic.
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-09-26 21:12:00 UTC
Borascus wrote:
The more information the better]

Anoikis makes sense if you look at the root words. "Anoikis" couldn't possibly be a reference to the medical terminology; it does, however, make sense in the context of wormholes and navigating W-space. Definitely fits with capsuleer navigation within W-space.

As a greek word, it fits in the etymology presented in Vitrauze, as well as various Sleeper and Gallente structures and vehicles.

As a literary reference, it fits with the Odyssey-like theme that permeates W-space.

For me it fits.

/shrug
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-09-26 21:27:49 UTC
Wyke Mossari wrote:
Ever noticed anything about the appearance of these ?

Oruze Construct

Oruze Osobnyk

The Oruze Osobnyk looks like a more complete version than Oruze Construct. So could that mean Construction or Construct, or perhaps more duality.

These seem to be different, I've suspected they might be Von Neumann Machines (self replicating structures)

I wonder if anybody has every guarded one of these perhaps they regenerate or grow. That what happens?

The Oruze Construct looks like a starting state for the Oruze Osobnyk. Simplest explanation would be a phase of construction.

Von Neumann probes definitely fit with what the Sleeper drones do; if you look at the entirety of the network. I would further venture that the Mirrors could be utilized to adapt Sleeper drones to fulfill pretty much any function of self-replicating spacecraft, from Berserker drones to Seeder ships, in addition to their Von Neumann Probe functionality.

Expanding that theory, I'd tentatively suggest that Jamyl's "Other" is such a probe given the criteria presented.